scrobble.life
#burnsteem

Let's burn some steem... I need your help.

I'm of the opinion that a little bit of burning can go a long way to effect price. Not all my witness colleagues agree with me, but this is what I think:

Eth has better price and is terrible to use because every transaction has a burn. Steem has lower price and is great to use because every transaction is free (if you have the rc).

I designed Steem Engine to have infrequent, but expensive burns so that people constantly have to purchase the token and burn it to get the tools they want. It's kept the price of ENG quite high relative to the price of Steem even after a few big token dumps, but it hasn't effected the ease of use for the vast majority of people interacting.

Will burning make a difference? How much burning do we need?

Here's bittrex. It's btc vs steem. It's a low volume trade these days. You'll notice that the entire asking side is 15btc. It's not a ton of money. It's ~$150,000. In total that would be ~750k steem.

Let's ballpark annual Steem inflation at 20M. 750k/20M = ~4%.

So, if we can figure out how to burn 4% of the rewards pool over the course of a year we can wipe out what's on bittrex now. I'm presuming that people will go to an exchange to purchase tokens they don't have to do a thing they want.

This might be indirect, so someone usually sells everything they earn here, instead they play a game, and with the game they record a high score and burn steem to do it, it dimishes the sell pressure just slightly, now someone else comes along and buys Steem because there was slightly less out there for sale. So, I'm counting someone burning somewhere will mean someone else being forced to buy. This might be wrong, but thus far it's my general experience.

My math isn't perfect, but my point is that it doesn't have to be a huge amount

So, my hope is that we as a community can start working on some simple things that can burn Steem. My three generic catagories are:

  1. Advertising
  2. Customizations
  3. Games

For Advertising I'd like to see all the front ends start having ads that display, but you have to burn Steem to get the ad. So, some gets burnt, some goes to the site operator, some goes to content creator. Maybe Steemit will be willing to burn some of the Steem they take in for ads.

For customizations I'd like to get my profile on Steem to have some things that I had to burn Steem to get. Badges, avatars, or whatever.

For games they could be really simple things. Coin runners, open source games, idle clicks, 1980s era RPGs that come back, but the key thing would be having a small burn for stuff players want. Maybe it's free to play but to get your score up there you have to burn steem.

So, let's try to get just a really simple thing up there

Take an afternoon or something and build something that burns Steem to do a thing, maybe you make a little money for the thing too. That's ok. Maybe you count on ads later. Whatever, let's just get a really simple thing up somewhere that burns a hint of Steem.

I'll help make it successful. I'll help get it connected to tribes. I'll help point people there.

People that makes things like this I could pay directly, help get witness votes, give tribe tokens or eng, help advocate for money from the SPS, or something else.

I think this is pretty important, so if you create something even really simple let's talk.

If you need inspiration for simple games check out itch.io. There's open source games so look for those too.

If you have ideas or build something please use #burnsteem and message me in Discord. You can find me in PALnet at minnowpond.org

Comments · 46

  • @ankarlie(64)· 2629d

    50/50 reward split and token burns sounds like a plan let's do it!

  • @oaldamster(70)· 2639d

    Would suggest burning {send to @null} Steem to recharge Resource Credits {RC}, instantly. Where the price would depend on what the network can handle. More resources used, higher demand, the more it will cost to recharge (part) of the RC.

  • @joshman(74)· 2642d

    I will burn 4% of my future post rewards in solidarity with this message!

    Some other low hanging fruit would be regular reward decliners like @steemitblog to burn their post rewards rather than decline them.

  • @tokenindustry(56)· 2643d

    Maybe burning STEEM is a good option when it becomes too big. I think now STEEM could be shared unconditionally e.g. to Newcomers, by delegation and likely nice transfers. Pouring the STEEM out over the community may work differently. 🙄🙄🙄

  • @gogreenbuddy(74)· 2643d

    It's time to burn a bit for sure, maybe burning should be linked to sbd. If sbd gets below 1$ than burning needs to start or steem engine fee becomes standard. Like 0.1% of every post gets burned.

  • @rechylove(56)· 2643d

    Incentives really brings out d best in products and encourages d investors more fully.....this idea is good because it will help boost and upgrade the value of steem, my opinion though

  • @arcange(79)· 2644d

    Congratulations @aggroed! Your post was mentioned in the Steem Hit Parade in the following category:

    • Comments - Ranked 3 with 77 comments
  • @steem-plus(74)· 2644d

    Hi, @aggroed!

    You just got a 0.15% upvote from SteemPlus! To get higher upvotes, earn more SteemPlus Points (SPP). On your Steemit wallet, check your SPP balance and click on "How to earn SPP?" to find out all the ways to earn. If you're not using SteemPlus yet, please check our last posts in here to see the many ways in which SteemPlus can improve your Steem experience on Steemit and Busy.

  • @ilyes-mediouni(25)· 2644d

    Nice

  • @skytrex(59)· 2644d

    Why don't we have a powerdown fee (and burn it)? 0.5% seems reasonable...

  • @wil.metcalfe(62)· 2645d

    Well! You certainly got the Steem Engine gears grinding with this post didn't you @aggroed!

    Having read through the post and subsequent comments I have been inspired to try out something with my current fitness initiative that I have been developing along side of the @mcfarhat's @actifit step tracking dApp.

    At @actifit we have recently launched the AFIT Marketplace. With this launch I (and other fitness professionals) am selling my services as a certified personal trainer to users wanting to spend their hard earned AFIT Tokens.


    Here's the link to the AFIT marketplace: https://actifit.io/consultants


    Having a use case for the AFIT token is our first stride forward to actually anchoring the token to real world value.

    After reading your post I realized that I could facilitate further incentive's by tying in the actual value of my personal training services to the amount of Steem fitness motivated individuals are willing to BURN.

    I currently run a fitness initiative via the @AdventureReady account called #AutomaticWin. Basically I am rewarding people using the @actifit dApp with re-steems, up-votes (the occasional 100 Steem Challenge's) and the #AutomaticWin Badge for being intentional with their health and fitness.

    Any @Actifit user who achieves 10,000 steps before 10am and who posts a screen captured proof to their end of day activity report along with the #AutomaticWin hashtag qualifies.

    I have been powering up the @AdventureReady account every month to support this initiative. Even with the dwindling prices... I believe in the longevity of Steem and therefore I am continuing to put my money where I see the future is going to be!

    So back to BURNING Steem (and thereby contributing to the stability and value of the Steem Blockchain) I have decided to launch 4 tokens using the Steem Engine Platform today.

    AutomaticWin [AWIN] Anyone making use of the @Actifit dApp who achieves an #AutomaticWin will receive an AWIN Token.

    This token in turn can be converted into BRONZE --> SILVER --> GOLD AWIN Tokens by burning different amounts of Steem and contributing to the Steem Blockchain:

    AutomaticWin Bronze [AWINB] - BURN 1 STEEM AutomaticWin Silver [AWINS] - BURN 10 STEEM AutomaticWin Gold [AWING] - BURN 100 STEEM

    In turn 1 AWIN GOLD, 10 AWIN SILVER, or 100 AWIN BRONZE can be utilized for a one on one Skype consultation with myself.

    As of yet I have not included any personal benefit to myself in the transaction as I view this as a way to do my part on Steem Blockchain and further support the @Actifit project. I know that money and value flows towards circles of influence on the Steem Blockchain. Steem is basically a way to commodify ideas and influence and THAT is why the Steem Blockchain is actually worth something far higher than it is currently trading at. Anything above $7.77 #Seven77 @NathanMars.

    I believe that if more people saw the benefit to building their business's here on the Steem Blockchain where ideas and influence are directly valued... Then the world would truly be our oyster.

    @aggroed do you have any thoughts, ideas, or questions about this idea/undertaking I am putting together?

    Additionally... Is there currently a way to "burn" Steem other than transfer it into a "dead" or @null account?

  • @pandaparker(59)· 2645d

    A downvoting burning steem dapp delegated by steemit inc!!!

    Posted using Partiko Android

  • @chireerocks(75)· 2645d

    @aggroed, Great to see that you are trying to encourage new Ideas💡 to bring value to Steem. And when someone says that i am ready to provide the guidance then that's the boosting aspect. Keep up brother.

    Posted using Partiko Android

  • @thecryptodrive(70)· 2645d

    Yip that's pretty much what I brought up in Slack yesterday, Steem needs more sinks like Steem Engine has.

    When SMT's come around perhaps some of your innovations can be applied there, ie token operators need to stake 1 SP per user, or need to burn x Steem to get oracle functionality or burn x to get a premium token name.

  • @spiritualmax(65)· 2645d

    I have been writing in favor of burns for a long time now, problem I was facing was that the people who wanted to burn are the ones who could only burn little in absolute numbers (even though much in percentage value) and people who had huge amounts of absolute numbers didn't see the value of burning even a little percentage of it.

    Long story shirt, little people at the time had way less steem to burn than they do now, in proportion, so they wouldn't make a difference - and whales were opposed.

    Now the distribution looks better, and I'm pretty sure the same whales are opposed, but at least now the bases look a little more solid and can help out.

    My only fear is that the little guys burn it to help the big guys leave faster. Because let's face it, there's a trend of it going on as far as whales dumping.

    Cheers

  • @blockchainstudio(72)· 2645d

    whenever possible try to burn SBD first to get out of the haircut

  • @marki99(62)· 2645d

    1000% agree.

    In particular steemit.com has to start burning steem because they set the example for everyone. If steemit burns, everyone burns. It doesn't have to be ads, it could be promotion spots on the trending page, instead of a separate promotion category which no one sees.

    That way they can keep advertising revenue. But of course to do that they will have to stop bidbots, since people will never pay when they can top spots for free.

    Soooo the solution might be to make it mandatory for bidbots to burn 30% of their rewards or something like that. If they don't, then @yabapmatt could remove them from steembottracker.com and Steemit, Inc could downvote all the posts the upvote, making them useless.

    This is centralized, yes, as it uses Steemit, Inc's stake. But effective.

  • @yabapmatt(72)· 2645d

    Eth has better price and is terrible to use because every transaction has a burn.

    So first off, I'm not all that knowledgeable about Ethereum so I could be wrong here, but don't the gas fees go to the miners? As far as I'm aware there's no burning going on there.

    In any case, burning is good for token prices...I don't think it's possible to argue with that, it's just simple supply/demand. But, asking people to burn STEEM (or any token) is just flat out never going to work. Asking business to create a product that requires burning STEEM is no different. A few people here and there might burn some to be altruistic or make some type of point, but at the end of the day it's money and people aren't going to burn their money.

    To make burning work, it has to be part of the platform. This is what you're doing with Steem Engine and it's working great there (as far as I can tell at least). Steem already has this a little bit with account creation. You can burn 3 STEEM to create a new account. This is a great example of how burning can be used as part of the platform. Of course, after HF20 now you can claim free accounts using your SP so I suspect not many people are doing this anymore.

    In my opinion, SMTs should work very similar to how Steem Engine works - you should have to burn STEEM to create tokens and even more to enable other features like ICOs, market trading, staking, proof of brain distribution, etc. As an example, Tron has a built-in smart contract for creating tokens that requires you to burn 1024 Tron to use.

    Overall though, even if these all sorts of burn mechanics were implemented I doubt it would make any meaningful dent in the STEEM supply. If we want to focus on supply, I think the focus should be on reducing inflation and/or the Steemit, Inc selling; however, I think the real focus should be on the demand side.

    If SteemIt, Inc wanted to I'm willing to bet they could make a deal with some big company like Samsung, or get STEEM listed on Coinbase, and just one such deal like that would do far more for the price than anything we might do on the supply end.

  • @freddio(60)· 2645d

    Idk why burning should makes sense?

    if there are more ways to use steem power on steem, the demand should increase automatically.

    I think when SMTs come on steem, they should be able to be equipped with RC by burning steem in them.

    Like you create a token and burn 100k Steem in them.

    Now the RC are distributed to the tokens that were created.

    maybe because you can not vote with the Steem power you burned, a few bonus RC.

    I think if a burn comes in place, it should be a real use case and not artificial.

    @aggroed

    Is it possible to fork and halve inflation?

    Because actually we have with SBD anyway a much too high inflation. That should be a better way then burn or what do you think?

    It should be really positive for Steem and all holders. Like the 8% (maybe much higher) to 2%-4%.

    I would love a fork like this

  • @felix.herrmann(71)· 2645d

    When i am at 50k sp i will think about it.

    Posted using Partiko Android

  • @crypto.piotr(65)· 2645d

    Dear @aggroed

    Great read.

    Eth has better price and is terrible to use because every transaction has a burn.

    I've been wondering for quite sometime already - why transactions on steem blockchain need to be 100% free. Nothing is ever free. We're paying for things in form of hidden taxes or hidden costs.

    The fact that Steemit Inc is selling that much steem every month to cover their expenses is a result of this "marketing slogan" about free transactions.

    I would rather like idea of each transaction above 1 STEEM be charged with some low fee, knowing that those tokens collected in form of fee will be burned.

    That would surely lower steem selling pressure.

    So, I'm counting someone burning somewhere will mean someone else being forced to buy. This might be wrong, but thus far it's my general experience.

    To some degree. The fact that someone is burning doesn't yet mean that there will be more buying power (someone else forced to buy).

    At the same time total daily rewards are probably always way higher than tokens burned. So circulating supply will be constantly growing faster and faster. Can burning catch up with it? I'm seriously curious.

    For Advertising I'd like to see all the front ends start having ads that display, but you have to burn Steem to get the ad.

    I LOVE THAT IDEA! I would love to be able to pay for ads with STEEM or PAL. Promoting does work very well already. This could work even better.

    Yours Piotr

  • @torico(63)· 2645d

    why you burn elmo? so mean.

  • @ats-david(75)· 2645d

    For Advertising I'd like to see all the front ends start having ads that display, but you have to burn Steem to get the ad. So, some gets burnt, some goes to the site operator, some goes to content creator. Maybe Steemit will be willing to burn some of the Steem they take in for ads.

    What a great idea!

    https://steemit.com/steemit/@ats-david/pscu45

    https://steemit.com/hf21/@ats-david/pto3dw

    If only all of these “new interface” owners would actually put some minimal effort into improving on the Steemit.com design/features. Why was this not one of your goals from the beginning?

    What are you guys waiting for?

    Also...

    Maybe convince STINC to burn what remains of their ninja-mine instead of diluting all other stakeholder influence with your new delegation system.

    Talk about something making a huge difference. There it is. Remember when you were once for that? Before you were given control over their SP?

  • @goldmatters(75)· 2645d

    This is the most important idea on the chain if we want the value of STEEM to rise. It’s so obvious it’s kind of driving me a little bonkers.

    Please keep talking about this.

  • @eastmael(69)· 2645d

    Technically, we can burn STEEM by sending it to @null right. So if ever we come up with a projects that burns STEEM, we put something into the code that sends it to @null for every burnable transaction (e.g., purchasing an item in-game)?

  • @manniman(69)· 2645d

    Good insight, thanks. Like&Resteem

  • @kayceefresh(57)· 2645d

    We can create a betting website that uses steem for sports betting and gambling and most lost steem be burnt to reduce the supply

    Posted using Partiko Android

  • @masterthematrix(61)· 2645d

    Steemit.com recently asked what people think about banning users comments on their blog and I suggested they should implement it as a Service where people have to pay for it to in order to ban any users or comments. Unfortunately Steemit.com is not thinking like a business should do. I hope that they will support any burns of Steem for Service in the future.

    Posted using Partiko Android

  • @donald.porter(67)· 2645d

    Infinite(Steem) supply generated by rewards pool, by all means— fire up the grill 🔥

    Posted using Partiko iOS

  • @cardboard(65)· 2645d

    For Advertising I'd like to see all the front ends start having ads that display, but you have to burn Steem to get the ad. So, some gets burnt, some goes to the site operator, some goes to content creator. Maybe Steemit will be willing to burn some of the Steem they take in for ads.

    I would love to have "promoted" post spot in condenser. Like 3rd spot in the post list would always feature post from promoted section. The more you burned, the higher chance to be displayed you have (esch page view is s new chance). It can be tested in tribes condenser first, then implemented on steemit.

    Probably I should add steem bounty for it :)

  • @luegenbaron(65)· 2645d

    How about burning the ninja mine stake?

  • @sepracore(64)· 2645d

    The internal SMT exchange should be written to require a small Steem burn per transaction.

  • @jrcornel(82)· 2645d

    I like it. What about if we made the option for a faster powerdown, but there was a fee to do so and that fee was paid in steem and that steem was burned? I have heard a few others talk about such an idea, but I like it as well.

    Also, I think we need to try and create more incentives for people to want to power up steem. I actually think the EIP may go the opposite direction in that and we are still feeling those effects in terms of steem's price as a lot of people powered down when that became clear it was going to be accepted and adopted.

    I am not sure what the best incentives are, but I don't think a 50/50 reward split for SP holders is enough of an incentive to get people to power up more steem...

  • @martie7(62)· 2645d
    1. We need burn coin on steem-engine. The more you burn the more you getting these tokens.
    2. What about super fast steempower decreasing feature but instead you should pay tax... maybe 10% own stake.
    3. Every successful game or app on steem blockchain can pay some tax on burning. I don't know how it can be made technically but I guess steem must get benefit from popular apps or games.
    4. New good-working promo. Current steemit's promo is shit.
    5. Last idea. Steem team should burn part of their steems. Why? To decreasing steem supply. If steem will fail then everyone fail.
  • @chekohler(76)· 2645d

    I like the idea of fiat token sinks where people who want fiat instead of going to exchanges can use a sink that pays out in their local currency but in doing so burns a portion or all that steem I means it’s leaving the crypto space technically! This makes for scarcity but also enforced the fact that the Steem you sell now you’re getting on the cheap and future steem will be way more valuable! It should be almost a punishment or counter intuitive to exchange Steem for fiat!

    Posted using Partiko iOS

  • @bluerobo(70)· 2645d

    How do you think we can affect anything price wise while Steemit is dumping hard?

    Don't get me wrong. I don't mind them dumping. I just don't want to piss against a hurricane ;)

    Posted using Partiko Android

  • @vlemon(78)· 2645d

    I think this is key to increase the value of STEEM. There are many ways as you mentionned to do so. A vote-Selling System could be a good idea but how would it be competitive versus normal vote-sellers, I do not know :).

  • @nextgen622(76)· 2645d

    I couldn’t agree more. Burning Steem and incentivizing powerups is what we need more of.

    Here are a few thoughts on burning Steem:

    • Why can’t we integrate Promoted posts into Trending on Steemit or one of the other Steem frontends, similar to how Palnet or other SCOT tribes do it? This way there will be more people using the Promote function to burn Steem.
    • Communities have huge potential for hosting features that require burning of Steem. I am strongly in favor of charging higher fees in Steem that is burnt to create a Community, and have access to features such as featured posts etc.
    • How about some features with Steem-engine that require Steem to be burnt? Maybe something like a portion of withdraw fees for Steem-engine be burnt?
    • SMT also has a huge potential to charge Steem that could be burnt too.

    Just some initial thoughts.

  • @appalachain(59)· 2645d

    How about burning all the rewards from posts that decline the rewards. I'm guessing that would have to be changed with a fork. Or maybe add a burn option in the post settings... Steempeak has done an awesome job at other stuff. What do y'all think? @asgarth, @jarvie, @r00sj3, @dmytrokorol

  • @costanza(78)· 2645d

    I agree that having some burn mechanics would go a long way already to stabilize the Steem price. This still doesn't solve the issue that there is little to no reasons to power up and hold a lot of SP these days (at least for average users). When I started on Steem a few years back, you really needed SP to do better on the platform. Right now with all the upvotes coming from the Dapps & Tribes (Steemmonsters, Actifit, Drugwars, esteem, 3Speak, Dtube, PAL, SPORTS, ...) there is almost no difference to how much Steem you can earn/mine between having 100SP which gives you all the RC you need and having 10k SP.

    How about this for an idea: If all the DAPPS linked their upvotes directly to the SP someone has giving bigger upvotes to bigger SP holders in a fair way there would be an actual reason to power up and at the same time cut out a lot of abuse since it's easy to just make a new account and start farming all the free dapp upvotes. I honestly want to power up more but I see no reason currently and all I see is people powering down and dumping their steem for steemmonsters cards, different steem-engine tokens, ...

    Looking at the numbers there seems to be a connection between dapps / tribe tokens and the price of Steem that continues to go down. What Steem needs is good reasons to hold SP along with some systematic burning mechanics it could do wonders for the STEEM price getting it back into a positive spiral.

  • @andre-ager(61)· 2645d

    the more of a market place there is the less people will want to exchange for FRNs buying and selling durable goods should help the Steem economy too.

  • @sepracore(64)· 2645d

    Not sure what I even think about this idea but I will throw it out there for debate. Thoughts on a Steemit Inc delegated vote bot that burns the incoming Steem? With everyone getting a downvote, hopefully abuse could be kept to a minimum.

  • @videosteemit(62)· 2645d

    Tokenize burning. Create burn coin. Add sink to burn coin.

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  • @skramatters(67)· 2645d

    Im feeling the burn

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  • @streetstyle(72)· 2645d

    does #burnsteem work with #spud ?

  • @witnessnews(2)· 2645d

    This post has been resteemed by @witnessnews.

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