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#hf21

HF21: What Makes Steem Valuable?

(If you're an audio/visual learner like myself and would prefer a video of me reading this post, scroll to the bottom of the post)

When it comes to difficult contentious decisions which impact what people value, it's very important to keep our emotions in check and do our best to argue from first principles. Too often when we disagree, we fall into the trap of thinking someone is either ignorant, immoral, or stupid. This post is directed at those wanting to have a rational discussion about the coming Hard Fork 21 of the Steem blockchain, which is certainly a contentious decision to be made.

I think a good starting point for the discussion is figuring out a shared understanding of value itself. Most people haven't done this. To say "We should do X because it will make Y more valuable because it improves Z" we better have a clear understanding of X, Y, and Z. All code improvements are supposed to be about making things more valuable over time. HF21 makes some claims about how it will increase value, so let's start there. I can only speak from my perspective, so I will refer to many of my posts to give further context for my perspective.

I'm operating under the assumption that you've seen my video on What is Financial Value? which, in summary, states financial value is simply a shared story we collectively choose to believe. As more people believe a story of value (special rocks, shells, tally sticks, gold, silver, coins, paper fiat, cryptocurrencies, etc), it becomes a reality. There is no intrinsic value, only some stories that are better than others based on specific context which become more widely held as shared belief.

When it comes to the Steem blockchain, let's sincerely ask what aspect of the chain we value. Is it the purchasing power of the tokens? Is it the decentralized, uncensorable blockchain which stores plain text and links to media which can not be completely censored? Is it the relationships we build through interacting with like-minded individuals around the world?

I had to figure this stuff out for myself early on. I tried to explain the basics to my friends and family:

The main point being:

"Steemit is a decentralized social media platform built on blockchain technology which pays content creators and curators in tokens of real value."

I then tried to explain that value: #SteemitIsToMe: Relationships, Reputation, and Rewards. This post covers three areas of value Steem creates for me and partly from which I make my decisions about value as a witness for the Steem blockchain:

Over time, I also realized the problems with extrinsic motivations alone surrounding my involvement (i.e. "Get paid to post!"). I had to continue posting because I wanted to intrinsically, not because someone was putting a carrot in front of me. I did that with experiments like this:

I actually hid the $$$ in the interface to focus more on the content and the relationships, and it worked. I suggest you do the same and use it to find a foundation for why you're really here.

I had to come to grips with the super linear rewards curve and how it was designed to be a lottery where some people get super lucky with big payouts and others get nothing:

HF21 (which we'll get to here eventually, I promise) brings things back to this approach just a bit from the current linear rewards curve where everyone can get something, even if they are the only ones self voting on their own content.

The next major breakthrough in understanding for me was realizing the Steem blockchain and STEEM token is where the value is, not the Steemit.com front end or Steemit, Inc or (potentially) even the content hosted on the chain.

Steemit, from a purely financial/monetary perspective, distributes value because investors and speculators choose to buy the STEEM token. Investors and speculators drive all the financial value we see here.

This, I know, will be a tough pill to swallow for authors and curators. Please, pause for a moment and read that post. You may have a misunderstanding of my perspective without doing so. At the time that post was written, STEEM had a market cap of over a billion dollars. Today it's just over $100M. Where many other tokens have grown 10x in value, STEEM has declined 10x.

To me, this is a sign that what we've been doing is not working, if we consider financial rewards (i.e. that thing completely supported by the token price) as an important part of the value Steem creates for us.

To further illustrate this point, I put together some data from 148 weeks of the Exchange Transfer Report I've been doing:

USD Exchange Transfers Over Time.png
(click to see a larger version of this image)

In USD terms, that's a net amount of -$172,260,609 worth of value that people are cashing out of their personal Steem accounts and sending to exchanges without someone else buying the Steem and sending it back to a personal account on Steem. There are many caveats to be aware of with this data, so please see an Exchange Transfer Report to better understand the data and the limitations as to what conclusions you can come to with it. Either way, it's a strong indication to me that most people are cashing out Steem they earn (either through early mining, author/curator rewards, Steem Power inflation, or witness pay).

If you're curious which accounts have been cashing out the most over the past few years, check out this post:

Hopefully at this point we've set some foundational definitions relating to value, and we've shown the current system for creating value in Steem has not be working well compared to other cryptocurrencies. Now we have a choice. Do we leave things as is and just celebrate the existing benefits we get from the Steem blockchain (again from this post you should read):

  • Zero fees.

  • 3 second block confirmation times.

  • Energy-efficient DPOS algorithm.

  • Built-in, on-chain governance.

  • Account recovery (unique to this blockchain).

  • Time-locked savings via smart contracts for SBD and STEEM.

  • User-friendly wallet addresses (instead of complicated hashes).

Or should we consider we can try to change some things to create more value without sacrificing these value adds?

That, to me, is what Hard Fork 21 is all about. Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result is the definition of insanity.

Let's not be insane.

There have been many months of debate about what changes should be made to the system to improve the value here. Here's how HF21 deals with many of them:

SPS: Steem Proposal System (SteemDAO)

From HF21: SPS and EIP Explained, we see this is about decentralization, sustainability, and funding valuable projects. Steemit, Inc, in my personal opinion, hasn't done the best job of managing this blockchain. I've mentioned this before here and here as well as a possible solution of my own relating to a SteemDAC which I figured talked about here: SteemDAC: A Plan We Can Start Today to Decentralize Steem Governance. Maybe this failure was due to inexperienced, centralized leadership. Maybe things will turn around if we decentralize more.

I think this is a great step forward for Steem. I think 10% funding for it to start may be a bit much and would be happer to start with something like 7% or even lower until we better understand how the funds will be used and what types of projects will get funded. That said, if HF21 comes through at 10%, I would not reject it over this detail.

To me, the SPS also addresses an interesting question for us all: Who really adds value around here?

To me, in a big way, that's the developers who build the tools we use within this ecosystem. Check out https://steemprojects.com/ to see what I mean. Check out things like https://steemmonsters.com/ which is creating a reason for people to create Steem accounts. Check out https://steem-engine.com/ where people spend their Steem to support other Steem related projects via tokenization. Take a look at tools like the Steem Wallet Chrome extension or the Vessel Wallet. Developers create a ton of value, and I think we should start rewarding them directly for their efforts, not just through their posts talking about what they are building.

Economic Improvement Proposal (EIP)

You can get details on this from Improving the Economics of Steem: A Community Proposal which outline these benefits:

(1) Moving from a linear rewards curve to a convergent linear rewards curve. A convergent linear rewards curve would start out superlinear, providing minimal gains at first, and smoothly become linear as more votes are made. Users that are interested only in maximizing the return on their Steem Power, instead of benefitting the platform through thoughtful curation, often engage in practices such as self voting or delegation to bid bots. The proposed curve incentivises concentration of votes on to fewer pieces of content, which increases the visibility of such counterproductive behavior. Alternatively, users could choose to act more subtly by spreading stake across more, but smaller, votes at the cost of a suboptimal return. We cannot eliminate such behavior entirely, but we can make it less economically viable.

To me, the key point here is "which increases the visibility of such counterproductive behavior". Keep that in mind as it will come up again. You can learn more about this change here: Reward Curve Deep Dive. Essentially, linear voting was tried and creating more problems than it solved. I was a supporter of trying the linear curve becuase and in the beginning it was exciting to see everyone getting some little bit of reward. Unfortunately it was too easy to game the system. Instead of going back to what we had before, we're trying something new and that, to me, is a good thing. We should get more information which we can continue to iterate with.

From that Deep Dive:

One problem with this change was that it reduced the incentive to consolidate one’s stake in a single account, which made it easier for bad actors to divide up their stake and hide their activities.

Unfortunately "bad actors" is still mostly undefined or if there is consensus on what bad action looks like, some accounts are too big in terms of Steem Power to do anything about.

(2) Increasing the percentage of rewards that are distributed to curators. One of the problems with Steem as it stands is that there is a strong incentive to self-vote. The more rewards are distributed to curators the less incentive there is to self-vote. At the same time, if curation is improved, then those content creators who are currently submitting great content which isn’t getting seen, should stand to benefit as that content will be more likely to get unearthed.

This, I think, is one of the most contentious aspects of HF21. Humans have trouble with loss aversion and many will see this as "Hey, I'm an author and now I'm losing part of my rewards. This sucks! I'm leaving!" It is possible some quality authors will leave because of this. I'll argue they may be here for the wrong reasons as mentioned above in the The Steemit $$$ Challenge post. It's also possible we've had many other great authors who came here, posted fantastic content, got no notice or rewards what-so-ever and left. What if those authors might come back or others like them might stick around if eager curators who are now twice as motivated to find them out and promote them actually get them some attention and rewards? I think it's at least worth trying. The current author rewards system is too easily gamed, and I don't think changing the rewards curve alone will fix it. I'm concerned this will create more Steem Power rewards for bots over time, but I've been trying to get people to stop using bots for a long time with little success:

An Argument for Long-Term Rational Self-Interest Versus Short-Term Irrational Value Extraction

Side note: see the articles linked to in that article which include a year old discussion about a separate reward pool, self voting, and Operation Clean Trending which encourages downvoting crap content on trending which used bit bots. Note, that tool appears to still be up here: https://steemwhales.com/clean-trending/

And finally from the EIP:

(3) Create a separate “downvote pool.” Downvotes are a critical component for regulating Steem, but there is no incentive to render them because they are not rewarded. In fact, they cost voting mana which disincentivizes the use of the downvote. This creates more opportunities for self-voting abuse as it reduces the likelihood that this behavior will be countered. By adding a small pool for downvotes that is consumed prior to consuming voting mana, users are more free to downvote content as a curation mechanism without losing out on potential rewards themselves.

Remember how we talked about "which increases the visibility of such counterproductive behavior"? Well this is where that comes in again. The only way to have working Proof of Brain and ensure rewards are distributed to valuable content in a meaningful way which Steem investors and speculators might respect is to use our votes effectively. That may include downvoting low-value content which, in effect, upvotes all the other higher value content. I hope we start building easy-to-use tools to automatically use some voting power to downvote content others get rewarded for finding. I'll leave this a project for the community to explore, but if you're interested please let me know. Maybe this will be a good candidate for an SPS project.

Could this cause more "flag wars"? Yes, it could. We already have accounts like @berniesanders who flag content based on personal issues with the author and not based on the quality or value of the content to the Steem ecosystem. It's possible this could increase after HF21. It's also possible that it's a real problem we have to solve today anyway. Imagine for a moment you're a huge multinational brand and you really want to get involved in blockchain technology. You want your content onchain and you look to Steem as the answer. You task your marketing team to come up with your first post and when the CEO goes to look at it, he sees this:

Not only will that brand never use Steem again, but someone might get fired.

It's possible serious brands are already avoiding Steem because of this very issue. I know of a few investors who won't touch Steem because of this. When large accounts can control which content is seen, especially if there's nothing fundamentally "low rating" about the content (other than a personal attack on the author), then that's a big problem relating to creating value. Why would they buy Steem and Power Up to promote their content if it will just get downvoted and disappear if some people don't like them?

If you see large accounts downvoting content based on personal issues with the author, I encourage you to upvote that content and counter the downvote. Also, I'd like to see us make a change to Condenser (the Steemit front end) which allows an "I'm an adult" setting which doesn't hide downvoted posts and/or allows accounts to be whitelisted from being hidden.

Why So Many Changes at Once?

We seem to have this discussion with every Hard Fork, so I won't repeat it at length again here, but it basically comes down to this: Every single wallet, exchange, application, payment processor, and service provider that relies on a Steem node will have to do a full resync of history every time we make a hard fork because these are consensus-breaking changes. That means everyone has to agree to them or else the tools that don't upgrade will stop working. With our low token value, it's possible some exchanges might consider delisting us instead of putting in time and money to resync their nodes. That means fewer hard forks are better.

Why Aren't Witnesses Taking a Cut of Rewards?

To increase curation rewards and create the SPS pool, many think the witnesses should also decrease their pay. I'm actually cautiously in favor of this as well, even if it's just one or two percent. That said, it's important to remember within DPoS that the security of the chain is directly related to the value of the rewards given to the block producers who secure it. If that value is too low, high quality witnesses will not stick around and it will be easier to attack the chain. That said, I do respect and appreciate @smooth's comment here:

A DPoS chain depends fundamentally on the competence and integrity of its witnesses. Putting that at risk puts the entire system at risk.

If the price of Steem goes too low and witnesses can't afford to run servers (or choose not to), the entire value proposition would be at risk for everyone. That's a systemic level risk which is important to consider.

If HF21 is adjusted to take some rewards from witnesses (while, ideally, spreading more rewards to backup witnesses to further incentive more decentralization), I'd be in support of that. As it is, I won't reject this Hard Fork if the witness pay is kept as is.

In Summary

Okay, that's probably way more than you wanted to read anyway, but those are my thoughts so far on Hard Fork 21. I will support it as a consensus witness (if I'm still in the top 20 at that time) because I think the value proposition we've created here so far is not working out well compared to other cryptocurrencies, and we should be willing to try things more often and fail fast. If we find these changes are far worse than what we have now, we can and should make new changes. What I'm not a fan of is doing nothing and expecting a different result.

That's just crazy.

As always, I'm here for your questions, comments, or concerns. Let me know what you think, but please understand, many of these conversations have been going on for more than a year now. Rehashing them again and again without taking action and trying something is mostly a waste of time, IMO.

To view what other consensus witnesses have to say about this Hard Fork, see these posts below:

There are also a lot of witness comments on this poll here: As a top steem witness, will you support a hardfork implementing the “Economic Improvement Proposal” or “EIP.”

Here's a video of me reading this post, if that's your thing:


Luke Stokes is a father, husband, programmer, STEEM witness, DAC launcher, and voluntaryist who wants to help create a world we all want to live in. Learn about cryptocurrency at UnderstandingBlockchainFreedom.com

I'm a Witness! Please vote for @lukestokes.mhth

Comments · 39

  • @chireerocks(75)· 2620d

    @lukestokes, I don't know if my understanding is right but in my opinion some aspects are really powerful:

    Developers

    Definitely these beings should empowered because they are developing Working Product and Ecosystem.

    Investors

    Large stake holders can use their stake to curate valuable content or projects which will inturn add value to those content which will help in boosting of Site Rankings And Visibility.

    Bid Bots

    Promotion is ancient method to promote particular Product, Project or Idea but here we all saw that, unfortunately reward pool consumed by lot of content which doesn't had true value for that much of rewards. Hopefully this change will bring the true idea of use of Bidbots and that is, Promotion of Project, Product and Idea.

    Content Creation And Curation

    In my opinion hype transfered different knowledge about this platform and many pursuing this platform as just limited to the Blogging. But this is Social Media and here every Network have equal space when they hold value. At the end of the day, at this time if we just not see our own benefits and focus towards Steem's growth then in my opinion there will be time when rewards will not matter that much because masses will see the value and we all going to become pillars of future giant Technology who stood strong and Transformed and Adapted all the changes no matter how much painful it was by keeping all Human Emotions aside which is generated in the competitive world.

    Wishing you an wonderful time ahead and stay blessed.

    Posted using Partiko Android

  • @novacadian(65)· 2622d

    My one disagreement with HF21 is the downvote pool. This will only further arm those who are abusing downvoting already. If one does not downvote now then they are not likely to start. If one does downvote now then this will mean more amunnition to do so.

    Downvotes should cost more not less so as to cost abusers more in my opinion.

  • @alexs1320(72)· 2623d

    People, users! User are giving its value. Have you noticed that the total market cap is static, 120-130M. Why? Because the number of users is the same.

    It's true for every single social network, steemit as well.

    *don't tell me that Steemit is not Steem. Just don't.

  • @coinchaos(63)· 2623d

    But the market says STEEM has no value

  • @hermandadsteem(71)· 2623d

    ¡Saludos, agradezco su tiempo y contenido explicativo, cuente con un servidor!

  • @schattenjaeger(71)· 2623d

    I dunno. The only draw this place - or the token itself - ever really had for me was the fact that I could get paid for my content. Beyond that, I have very little, if any, interest in the whole thing.

    I really doubt I'm the only one.

    I feel Steemit could have been given a better chance as a self-imposed game of people competing for content popularity, powering up to get noticed, and staying powered up to show loyalty - and the whales rewarding loyalty.

    I was regularly buying and powering up at the beginning because I was engaged in the game of trying to be a trending author, getting the big rewards, and trying to the big shots to autovote me.

    The game is what motivated me to buy.

    What motivation is there now, though? I an buy, buy, buy all I want, but the big votes are gone, and all go through bid bots now. So, yeah, I can pay $200 to get myself a spot on trending, but all I get back is the money I put in, so in the end, I gain nothing. There is no point to use this site anymore. And with that, there is no point in being interested in the STEEM token anymore - outside of pure speculation. I'm holding on to the STEEM I have just in case of some crazy, irrational Korean pump from out of nowhere.

    The big cost of the bid bot business has been the loss of the most captivating part of the site: the lottery effect.

    "This might be the post that attracts the big vote that attracts more big votes and earns me a spot on trending."

    "Oh, that wasn't it. Well, maybe if I buy some more and power up, I increase my chances of getting noticed."

    And again and again.

    But nope. It's all bid bots now. There's no manual curation, it's all predictable and predetermined. It's just not... fun anymore.

    And I get what all of you big shots are saying about the content itself not adding value, and not being enough to really take the token anywhere - but I feel that the game that surrounded the competition for content rewards had something going for it.

    It's not like I'm saying anything along the lines of "Oh, I'm such an artist and I deserve blah blah blah", I just enjoyed the game.

    And as that game came to an end, I powered down, stopped caring about this site, and gave up - only visiting it from time to time to see if things had changed.

    By the looks of things, STEEM is now below 70 in Coinmarketcap, so it looks like I'm not the only one who stopped caring as the focus shifted from the content creation game to other things.

  • @fortunahibiscus(25)· 2623d

    The mechanics of writing sentences in this article is very odd and hard to follow. Is English your second language?

  • @fortunahibiscus(25)· 2623d

    I totally disagree. It is'nt purely about the steem, it is about the freedom of speech and variety of writers that are in one place. I would strongly avoid having a downvote. It is one of the most positive social media platforms out there. The steem aspect is a bonus! This is my first post, after I lost my password from my initial account. Please upvote me if you agree. Many thanks :)

  • @kawaiicrush(66)· 2623d

    hardfuck.jpg

  • @drutter(73)· 2623d

    "What makes STEEM valuable?"

    I don't know, but I sure hope we find out soon! :(

  • @ats-david(75)· 2623d

    I was a supporter of trying the linear curve becuase and in the beginning it was exciting to see everyone getting some little bit of reward. Unfortunately it was too easy to game the system.

    Yeah, and this was pointed out many times by people who were not in favor of linear rewards for precisely this reason (and there were other reasons too). The rationale was questioned long before the HF was officially proposed and implemented and Steemit, Inc. was asked directly why linear was suddenly preferred, in light of the previous rationale for non-linear. Those questions were pretty much entirely ignored.

    But I'm curious...

    How did it take two full years of economic and social destruction through a variety of abuses and exploits for this to come up again and finally be addressed? That is the truly mind-boggling aspect to all of this. What has Steem's "leadership" been doing, other than completely ignoring every call to scrap linearity, as well as other terrible protocols?

    I would say that our consensus witnesses have been mostly derelict...again. We still can't even get much insight from most of them about the current proposed fork. Meanwhile, I've written a post for each of the two components of this fork, engaged on other people's posts about it, and I'm not even allowed in the witness/investor/cool people club chat where these discussions allegedly take place. Isn't that kind of ironic?

  • @ilyastarar(64)· 2623d

    Steemit, Inc has wasted too much time perpertuaing an essentially discouraging economic model for too long. All my belief in Steem (and Steemit) was shattered with the advent of bid bots and their huge success. Steemit, Inc leadership seemed to be uninterested at thar time. Many people left. I did too. I won't have read this post but for our facebook connection. This is the first post I have read about HF21. I'd read a dozen more to arrive at an opinion and see what my Steem holdings can expect in the future. I had read almost all the posts linked within this so it was easier to finish reading it in one go.

  • @marki99(62)· 2623d

    Downvoted because I don't believe you should be a top 20 witness.

    Good luck to you, in the end the STEEM power holders will decide.

  • @arnel(67)· 2623d

    I think HF 21 is a step forward,,, the only way to progress is to implement what we think can be good and if we fail just try again.

  • @nelson18(59)· 2624d

    Realmente este hardfork21, no apoya a los nuevos usuarios su apoyo va dirigido a los curadores , bien es cierto que ayuda a escoger mejor la calidad de las publicaciones a votar, pero hay a autores que merecen un buen voto y esto desmotiva y por lo tanto la afluencia de usuarios abandonan y el movimiento de la criptomoneda asumo que también baja en el mercado. Compartire esta publicación

  • @coininstant(69)· 2624d

    Yup, not working like this!

  • @lauch3d(66)· 2624d

    Rationality is something to start with. Evidence is the next step.

    It is shown, that communication networks have an "intrinsic" value. It emerges from the number of users and is described by network-laws like Metcalfe.

    • Odlyzkos Function V = a × n log(n) a: USD/MAU
    • Metcalfes Function V = a × n² a: USD/MAU² (MAU = monthly active users). [Odlyzko and Tilly 2005]

    It holds for Facebook, Tencent, Bitcoin, Ethereum, Dash and it will hold true for Steem. It is independent of our belief system.

    Studies: Facebook and Tencent: Zhang et al. 2015 Bitcoin, Ethereum, Dash Alabi 2017 Bitcoin: Peterson 2018, Civitarese 2018 Valuation of DLT: Vitalik Buterin 2017

    Of course, in the end, your are right, people value the shares/token by buying, but a network with 2-Million users will never be worth nothing and a network with 2-billion users will always be worth more than the smaller network.

    A Hardfork shouldn't focus on anything but user experience. This valuation model was popular in the Dot.com Hype. Jeff Bezos understood it immediately.

    “If there’s one thing Amazon.com is about, it’s obsessive attention to the customer experience end-to-end. Internet, Shminternet”<< "In the longrun, there never will be any misalignment between customers interest and shareholders interest" << - Jeff Bezos 1999

    HF21 proposes a "DAO" which´s voting-model is based on stake (Focus on Shareholder needs). Stake is extremely distributed and makes any voting obsolete. One account (e.g. steemit) can outperform anybody and will always win. Opposite of decentralization and DAO.

    Ralph Merkle (the crypto guy Merkle trees are named after) actually wrote a paper on DAOs and why they need to be democratic...the paper is peer-reviewed by Buterin, Hoskinson, and others

    maybe I'm to dumb to get the point, but HF21 forks the users away. Even Larimer said Steem was intended to be a DAO, organized by the users.

  • @frankvvv(68)· 2624d

    HF21 is extremely bad. People who put in the effort to make blog posts get their rewards cuts. People just upvoting get more. Even whales get increased curation rewards just for clicking on an upvote button. Maybe the best strategy for everyone is power up and delegate their complete SP out to get automatic rewards and do nothing. Have they gone mad?

  • @inertia(75)· 2624d

    I agree that doing something over and over and expecting different results is bad. But the EIP is the same thing being tried over and over.

    In reality, we could change the economics all we want and it won't help. Constantly changing the economics so that investors have no clue what the true goals of the potential investment is would also qualify as insanity.

    The real thing that Steem needs is a clear vision and marketing that clear vision. The EIP just adds more confusion. The original n^3 + 100% inflation would have been fine if it was marketed. Instead we keep fiddling with it, hoping investors will magically get it by osmosis.

    Steemit, Inc. currently says that their vision is sustainability (ads and programmatic selling). There is no mention or focus on STEEM Power (which means there is no focus on the fundamental unit of accounting for the blockchain).

    So yeah, do your EIP. I think the only marketable aspect of this hardfork will be the SPS. In fact, once the SPS is launched, I'd like to see a proposal to switch all inflation to SPS, then make witnesses beg to fund the author/comments rewards pool, curation, interest and witness pay monthly.

  • @asadnaymur(52)· 2624d

    I do not know many words in your words. But I knew a lot. Well liked I'm one of the new steemers, so it's probably hard to understand. I am very happy to win your valuable Idea. Thank you very much.

  • @arcange(79)· 2624d

    Congratulations @lukestokes! Your post was mentioned in the Steem Hit Parade in the following category:

    • Comments - Ranked 6 with 64 comments
  • @gray00(58)· 2624d

    People building centralized websites on the blockchain de-values of coin. Steemit devalues, d.tube devalues, steempeak devalues. I've begged all the developers to build decentralized applications but they build capps. Centralized applications. What's the point?

  • @jphamer1(62)· 2624d

    I have what i think is a pretty awesome idea to get more people to steemit. Basically a reward system or a referral system. I know plenty of people who are good at writing but i dont want to pester them into joining, mainly because why should i there is nothing in it for me. If i got even a very small reward for their posts for signing up under me then maybe id be incentivised to get them to join up. You can lead a horse to water but you cant make them drink it is basically how iv felt about crypto for years. I was passionate about telling my friends about how crypto could change there lives in the early years but gave up once i realised nobody wants to hear it, which is why i dont promote steemit to people.

  • @ocupation(71)· 2624d

    Hi Luke, just wanted to ask you something and I'm not sure if I put it right but I'll try.

    Will the price of steem affect the curve - and by that I mean, will the 100 000 sp that's going to be needed in order to touch the linear curve decrease in case steem goes to let's say 1 dollar.

  • @crypto.piotr(65)· 2624d

    Dear @lukestokes

    Great piece of work buddy. Solid read.

    My strong impression is that in order for HF21 to be succesful, we would need more so called "whales" to delegate some of their SP to those who actually curate content. That would encourage curators to be more active.

    Will that really happen? I hardly doubt so. I think most big players will "milk the cow" and will focus on short-term gains.

    Also from my understanding - current non-linear reward curve will affect those with small voting power and will discourage those who actually upvote valuable comments.

    Yours Piotr

  • @cflclosers(72)· 2624d

    I like how you took the time to lay it out as you understood it to be. So in that vain I agree with you 100% but I am no fan of the downvote for 1 simple reason. And I realize there are more than 1 reason to downvote. But for me I was in the twitter beta test and spent a lot of time up at Facebook campus. These companies have spent a decade training millions and millions of social media users how to share and consume content. And whether we like it or not, it has short form and mostly "shit" content that only people within their "social' group may or may not like. If we are to retain a social media element of steem we need to embrace that style of content and not downvote it . Instagram alone has thousands of influencers with millions of followers that would be far better off moving over to steem and subsequently moving their followers over to curate than by staying on instagram. If we model ourselves after a currently irrelevant long form content platform like Medium, we are dead in the water. I don't like seeing share2steem or actiffit content downvoted. Those types of dapps are our future whether or not steemians currently "get it" or not. In my opinion that is where our growth is and if we have influencers participating and earning here, then the investors will follow. I'm fine with the fork, just not the downvoting because big stake holders will just downvote for the hell of it.

  • @smooth(74)· 2624d

    At the time that post was written, STEEM had a market cap of over a billion dollars. Today it's just over $100M. Where many other tokens have grown 10x in value, STEEM has declined 10x.

    Very few tokens have increased 10x since early 2018 and in fact very few have increased at all. Bear market and all.

    Nevertheless STEEM has seriously underperformed even relative to that market and most of those other tokens, so your point is still fundamentally correct.

  • @randr10(64)· 2624d

    I'll reiterate what I said early on about what I consider to be a fatal flaw in this system. There is no recourse when someone downvotes your content "for personal reasons." Some sort of dispute resolution function to counter this needs to be put into place or this whole system is going to continue to struggle, for reasons that you've highlighted here and more. Maybe it's a function that only top witnesses could serve, or maybe it would be somewhat automated. I'm not a programmer but I think I'm pretty decent at seeing how systems of rules and the incentives they generate will manifest. I knew accounts would abuse the flagging function right away after I started using Steemit and my first post got flagged for no actual violation, and so I saw that there needed to be a systemic disincentive to use flagging unjustly. Obviously a clear and objective set of rules would need to be posted about what constitutes an acceptable downvote. There currently is no way to make such accounts experience pain for their indiscretions, while there is a very easy and effective way to punish content creators, even if they did nothing wrong. People really don't like it when their livelihood can be destroyed by a simple click of a button by some asshole who simply doesn't like you. That imbalance of power is just plain unacceptable and frankly, it's not viable.

    Posted using Partiko Android

  • @steemitboard(66)· 2624d

    Congratulations @lukestokes! You received a personal award!

    Happy Birthday! - You are on the Steem blockchain for 3 years!

    You can view your badges on your Steem Board and compare to others on the Steem Ranking

    Do not miss the last post from @steemitboard:

    The Steem community has lost an epic member! Farewell @woflhart!
    SteemitBoard - Witness Update
    Do not miss the coming Rocky Mountain Steem Meetup and get a new community badge!
    Vote for @Steemitboard as a witness to get one more award and increased upvotes!
  • @nonameslefttouse(77)· 2624d

    You guys just can't see the potential. "What we're doing isn't working." True, and what you're missing, is annoying, and I don't say that to be a jerk. It's annoying watching so many scratch their heads, when there are piles of billions of dollars everywhere to tap into. Luke. You know crypto, blockchain, financial stuff, tech. Okay fine. Have you ever heard of the entertainment industry? So many links here, so many posts to read within your post. Why not stop talking and start listening?

    https://steemit.com/steem/@nonameslefttouse/curators-hello-where-the-hell-are-you

    https://steemit.com/steem/@nonameslefttouse/how-much-have-you-spent-on-entertainment-in-your-lifetime

  • @onthewayout(62)· 2624d

    In other words you are in favor of HF21.

  • @masoom(72)· 2624d

    HF21 How long will it be placed?

  • @brianphobos(72)· 2624d

    My worst mistake in crypto.... STEEM. Everyone get out why you can. I'm 1000 miles away from my keys so I can't power down and get out so I have to watch it be drained to a point where it will be about #150 on CoinMarketCap

    The worker proposal funds will just go to the witnesses and large stake holders who already drain the system.

    Stack Steemit Inc on top of the chaos and you are in for a financial beating. Don't invest your money here.

    Congrats Luke you have everyone fooled into thinking you are doing something for STEEM. I would be embarrassed if I made as much money from this system based on everyone else chasing the carrot.

    Your posts aren't any more valuable than someone like me throwing up pictures from vacations or random other things at this point.

    Slow clap for running a witness server and being part of the club.

    Posted using Partiko Android

  • @moon32walker(72)· 2624d

    Steem token value, as with most coins on coin market cap is fake, of course you know this. It is a made up coin where small percentage of people hold most of the coins and if they decide to get rid of their stake in full numbers the bid order book would not be able to cover it. It would go to 0. Because whales do not need to cash out everything we hang around at this fake market cap. Am I right?

  • @pirateofthedtube(53)· 2624d

    I think we're all just still scared from HF 20, which I maintain Steem/Steemit has never recovered from. That botched rollout cause a lot of people to leave, and a lot just never bothered to come back. I just want this to be a fast enough process that we don't have to deal with that again. I remember before 20 all kinds of new people were joining. Now I just don't see that happening any more.

  • @zanoni(66)· 2624d

    You hit the nail! Why should any company invest in Steem and present their brand with the risk of getting downvoted? I'm wondering, for example, about why is RT still posting here for the laughable rewards they get. And yes, the downvoting will increase flag wars and make the climate more worse then it is already. Cut rewards of content producers will drive people away as well... All in all is not that difficult to see the changes are coming aren't good for the system or the value of Steem at all. The view of an ordinary user. Have a nice day Tom

    Posted using Partiko Android

  • @abitcoinskeptic(75)· 2624d

    For everyone saying Steem is undervalued, if you aren't buying it, why is that? Is Steem boring? Does it lack potential? Or are you broke?

    Posted using Partiko Android

  • @chekohler(76)· 2624d

    While I’m not the most clued on all the technical stuff I do believe in failing fast and testing new ideas! Steem has some real potential but it feels as if it’s being kept isolation and the whole blogging and curating uses case has too many people seeing as all it is when it can be so much more!

    If we are to create more value we need more use cases and I think that blogging and the social media aspect can amplify all these use cases!

    If we had more eCommerce both physical and digital with more cases to buy and sell Steem and make it an attractive place to not only promote but conduct business we would really have a winning formula on our hands

    Posted using Partiko iOS

  • @yabapmatt(72)· 2624d

    I'm totally with you on the need to focus on value. The question I always like to ask is: "If you take away speculation, why would someone want to buy STEEM?"

    My issue with the EIP (and the whole concept of rewarding content just for the sake of it) is that even if it works out perfectly - i.e. the highest quality posts always end up with the most rewards or however you define the perfect "proof of brain" system - I still don't see how there is value to owning STEEM or why I would want to buy any.

    Maybe I'm a great curator and can earn a ton of curation rewards, but being able to earn more STEEM is not a reason to buy STEEM in itself. That presumes STEEM has some value to begin with which would make you want to earn more of it. Again, if you remove speculation which gives it its value right now, what is the reason to buy STEEM?

    That's what I think all of our efforts should be focusing on - giving STEEM some actual value that doesn't just come from being able to earn more of it.