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OCD

Cross-addressing cross-posting

My wife and I got to head out for a few hours tonight and grab dinner together, as we were able to have a family member babysit for us. It is pretty rare to have any evening time away from our daughter and hopefully now that she is getting a bit better with her foods, we can do it more often. "Alone time" currently means talking about renovation plans.

Over dinner - we talked bathrooms and laundries - risque. But I am not here to talk about house renovation foreplay.

IMG_20200222_182358.jpgThis is a picture I took from our table with my phone on a 5x zoom. Not bad.


There are some concerns that the @steempeak cross-posting function is going to lead to abuse and I believe that the concerns are valid and should be looked out for, but even with abuse there is opportunity.

Some of the potential abuses

Firstly, the concerns for abuse are generally surrounding the cross-posting of one's own posts in order to get multiple payouts on the same post. At the moment (afaik) the split percentage for author/ sharer/ interface is 90/5/5, so I could cross-post my content which creates a new post, and double-dip on my autos. This is very possible but also relatively easy to spot. If I see large accounts reposting themselves in this way, it will likely be met with flags.

So then, they will cross-post from their alts to abuse the autos instead. Yes, probably, and this is harder to detect. But since this feature is generally reserved for the best content, it will be pretty obvious when it happens again and again on the same author. While this seems like a good way to make some extra Steem it is also likely a very good way to lose a lot of autovoters. I encourage autovoters to make sure to check on what they are voting on often.

The third point is cross-post selling, which would be much like bidbots except instead of paying delegators, an account with autvoters on them could take a kickback for cross-posting someone else's content. Again possible, harder to detect, but once detected it is likely that the account will lose their autovoters due to their scammy ways.

So what is good?

Well, firstly when it comes to the abuse of the cross-posting functionality, it is pretty easy to spot what is a cross-post and where it comes from. When it comes to the larger accounts, more people will have their eyes on them anyway and the potential loss for losing autovoters is far greater. Those who abuse it are either very greedy, or very stupid.

But beyond the abuse.

Encouraging and incentivizing sharing is a brilliant move to get good content to spread. An individual curator who s able to do this well and build up a following can earn without having a lot of Steem Power to curate. Previously, curation was the main reason (from an economic perspective) to resteem a post as one could vote early, resteem and get more votes to come in on top - this is obviously more of an advantage for those who have SP and a following.

However, because this is targeted at sharing through communities, a curator can cross post relevant content into a tailored community and add value to the community by introducing good content and add value through a percentage of the post rewards. Without creating anything, the curator can earn a percentage and the original author earn a lot more without having to market themselves. This value adds to author and sharer, who could become a valuable content influencer within a community.

Visualize me cross-dressingposted

For example. Let's say I post this piece of content to the OCD community as it is my main community at the moment. However, someone might think that it also fits into the SteemLeo Community and cross-posts it on their account into there. While I wouldn't do this for my own content because I see it as double dipping from my own audience, it is up to the marketplace if they think it fits their audience.

This creates two (or more) instances of my posts that can receive votes, but the audiences might not have any overlap at all between who read the first, and who will read the second. This is content exposure. Not only that, the cross-posted content might not earn Steem at all, but could attract an SMT from the community it is cross-posted into.

Remember that we are here to empower users in many ways and that many of us have been begging for more rewards for good content creators. Providing incentives to share means that users who might not have Steem Power (or other SMT power) and do not have the skill or will to create, can still earn something on their consumption - with no financial investment. And, the incentive is to share good content that the community values. This adds another filter to the proof-of-brain mechanism.

Try adding more incentive to share good content

I would be quite happy to be able to have a larger percentage of the gains go to the sharer and further incentivize them. The reason is that they may have access to audiences I do not or do not have the time to share to, and essentially they become a part of my distribution network. It really is no skin off my nose and it is up to them to shill me if they want to earn more. I would predict that most of the cross-posted content isn't going to earn much unless it comes from a large account.

And then we have this. If for example I find content that I really really want to reward and believe that my audience would apprectiate it as much as me, I can cross-post it and that author is going to benefit heavily from the autovoters that I have worked very hard to gain over the last three years. The effort to gain them also means I do not want to lose them, so I do not want to cross-post undeserving crap, as it is not in my best interest to do so.

This is where a large account with autovoters would be very stupid to take payment for cross-posting, because once an auto is removed, it isn't likely it is coming back. I would have to be very careful as each cross-post will be a short gain for the user I support, but a potential very long loss for me as an active creative on Steem and someone who values my time, content, the community and my ability to earn into the future.

The bad and the good of it

Yes, there is potential for and very likely will be abuse, but whenever there is anything of value to gain, there will be those who try to scam the system. If you haven't learned that from being on Steem yet, you haven't been here very long, or you are blind. In society, these abuses and abusers are generally hidden away, but on Steem they are far more exposed and traceable in history, plaus there are mechanisms to deal with them directly, through downvotes, mutes, unfollows, loss of delegations and turning off the autovote switch on those who abuse the trust.

But, I believe that on this one, the potential for far ranging benefits outweigh the costs of short-term abuse as it provides a feather in Steem's cap that further differentiates it from the market place of the attention economy.

For instance, I am one man sitting at my dining room table each night after working two jobs during the day - I am not overly skilled at or have the time for promoting myself - but I do create relatively decent content that seems to add value to the community in some way. This means that you my audience become my word of mouth publicist and can benefit from doing so while supporting your communities and me in a win-win-win scenario.

I will say it again. This has the potential to be a game-changer on the internet as people will be rewarded for doing what they are currently doing for free - taking engaging content viral.

Taraz [ a Steem original ]


I apologize for the even longer than normal post, but I think that this has to not only be addressed, but given a chance despite bad actors and other risks. However, keep a very close eye on the cross-posters you see and the values they get. Be curious and skeptical - click the link and see what is shared. You might be pleasantly surprised and find some great content, you might have a target to downvote.


Onboarding

Comments · 37

  • @diggndeeper.com(67)· 2371d

    I have just the last couple of days been messing around with cross-posting and communities. I started my own and have been fishing around for content for community page and others I relate to.

    I quickly became aware of the concern I should have for my auto voters and your article gave me an idea. I have another account that has no auto voters, so maybe I should use that for the majority of the cross posts I am doing and use this account sparingly and very carefully.


    Discord: https://discord.gg/5fPatJx We discuss open, decentralized, anti-prohibition stuff and Steem promotion.

  • @driptorchpress(71)· 2371d

    I have been taking this approach for a few days: /@simplifylife/communities-and-cross-posting-made-ridiculously-simple-for-everyone

    and cross-posting my own stuff, just to get more eyes on it. My logic in cross-posting to a couple of different communities is to ensure I get more visibility, not to double dip. But with the way rewards are distributed to each of the cross posts individually it seems to actually hurt me more than helping.

    Big accounts are naturally going to get more cross-posts from others. Smaller accounts are going to get even more hidden by the fact that their posts are only showing up within the communities they post in.

    Perhaps a solution of funneling back the cross-post's rewards to the original post (like Resteeming does) would be helpful for creators like me.

  • @crypto.piotr(65)· 2373d

    Dear @tarazkp

    Cross-posting seem to be another trendy topic lately. I've found your post thanks to @oneray. Thank you for sharing your view on this issue.

    Just like you've mentioned - potential for abuse is real. And I worry that cross-posting will be a reason for many new flag wars and people being downvoted left and right.

    I personally will discourage everyone from cross-posting to our project.hope community. Such a posts (on steemit) look like spam. Nothing inside except of link to original source.

    Upvote on the way, Yours, Piotr

  • @atma.love(71)· 2374d

    Well. This is interesting. I think i've spent about an hour reading the post and all the comments. I joined several new communities over the last day or two, and in (i think) two of them i crossposted my introduceyourself post. Maybe i did so with another of my posts, i cant remember now.

    Although i had already realised through reading info somewhere, that a new instance of my post would be created and therefore potentially new rewards, i didn't crosspost it for that purpose, but simply to introduce myself (without spending another hour or two) crafting another post to do so. Also, the main reason i am wanting to introduc myself, is not for vanity sake, but for a particular purpose, to share and attract help/support for the Matrix-8 multi-level governance platform, which i have a very strong conviction will remove the need for the current corrupt governmental systems which basically rape the general population of money and health.

    So, what do i do in future? I have several posts which i spent many hours writing which i think could be usefully re-shared from time to time in different places, for a very good cause. Of course what i could do (and have been doing) is to share links to these posts within a new post or comment, and i will continue to do that. But sometimes, not often i don't think, i would like to re-post some old posts. Perhaps i can set the rewards on the post to @null, or to a worthy party. For now i will refrain from crossposting my own posts until a concensus is reached on how this feature can be ethically used.

    Now, i am new here, and still learning, trying to get my head round a lot of new stuff, but this post has brought up some other concerns that i've been dwelling on.

    Auto-votes is one of them. When i first noticed two very quick votes on one of my posts i asked them not to vote on my posts unless they actually read them. No responce received, and they continue to (what now realise is) autovote all my posts (including i noticed the two (i think) cross posts i made, which made me pause for thought).

    While on the one hand the little greedy part of me (and the entrepreneurial businessman part) which still poke thier heads sometimes, want all the votes they can get, on the other hand the now much more dominant authentic side of me does not want them. Also I'm fortunate that i have a small pension pot (which i paid into for about 30 years) so do not need to earn money any more, and as i live a frugal life in a cheap country.

    Having said that, a week or so ago i delegated some SP to @curangel and @sbi and maybe a couple of others, and i see some of them are now autovoting my posts. So this seems like i am just paying to get my posts voted on. It all seems like just ways to get more money out of the pool. Of course it's still nice to earn on posts, or from delegations i make, then i can choose what i do with those earnings, and likely help others in need, or to pay costs of creating the Matrix-8 platform. What to do!

    Also, these Engage tokens, and Beer, and COffee, and Pancakes and Steemitboard awards etc. etc. etc. i keep seeing, seems to me to be spammy auto comments again to take money out the pot. Perhaps i'm wrong and there is actually a good purpose.

    I am curious. Please enlighten me.

    Namaste Atma

  • @mrnightmare89(74)· 2374d

    yes you have a point about choosing what kind of post to be done in cross posting. This is a good idea but it could be bad as well. This could be abuse but let's hope it won't happen. Anyway I'm still taking too much time in learning how is steem changing now. For now some new features I have no idea about it. And your post helps me to understand what about this cross posting..

  • @bengy(79)· 2374d

    I have been playing around with this a bit in the past few days. I was a bit surprised by the way it worked... And thought it was just sharing the same post in a different community (which would address the problem that I have of wanting to belong to a few communities...), I didn't expect it to create a new post!

    As it is, it isn't what I hoped for... But I hope that there will be a way to be able to post across communities (it doesn't appear that having multiple jobs tags works?)!

  • @papilloncharity(83)· 2374d

    Greetings @tarazkp you seemed to have stirred a bee hive here Lol For what it's worth, I will not be doing any cross posting at this stage. But I have a question. If someone cross posts my stuff, will I be liable to also cross post their stuff? Blessings!

  • @coffeea.token(58)· 2375d

    coffeea Lucky you @tarazkp here is your COFFEEA, view all your tokens at steem-engine.com Vote for c0ff33a as Witness

  • @steevc(80)· 2375d

    I'd love to see some of the big auto-voters review what they are doing. Don't just go for maximum curation rewards when there are lots of quality, under-appreciated posts out there. I do benefit from auto votes, but I'd honestly like more real engagement on my posts. We may be neglecting the social aspect of this platform.

    I've not figured out this cross-posting feature yet, but I see you can re-Steem your community posts to your feed. I assume in that case they only count as one post.

  • @arcange(79)· 2375d

    Congratulations @tarazkp! Your post was mentioned in the Steem Hit Parade in the following categories:

    • Comments - Ranked 2 with 99 comments
    • Pending payout - Ranked 8 with $ 44,32
  • @indextrader24(75)· 2375d

    !COFFEEA

  • @julianhorack(76)· 2375d

    Interesting new development here on steemit with the communities and tribes and the way posts appear or don't appear. We all want more exposure for our creative content, and of course more upvotes for payout. But there are some who just want their message heard and will aim to crosspost - the new resteem - as much as possible for exposure. We have been given a tool that could be used or exploited depending on the motivation of the user.

    Still a bit confusing and messy for most but will settle down with use I presume. Thanks for the explanation buddy.

  • @steemskate(60)· 2375d

    @knowhow92 tipped 100 SKATE TOKENS for this post!

  • @lordbutterfly(80)· 2375d

    It will be case by case and hopefully will lead people away from autovotes. I personally do quite a bit of auto voting but receive very little in regards to my total payouts. I think autovotes are barely 5% of my totals.

    Nothing is clear cut and you cannot make a "fit all" rule. Going case by case and acting accordingly is the best course of action.

  • @knowhow92(79)· 2375d

    I agree with most of your points @tarazkp but these rules apply if you want write a blog or share a youtube link.

    For example, if I want to upload a skate video on Dtube and then share it with the Steemskate community there is no other way to do it than cross post my Dtube post from the dtube community to the Steemskate community since just adding the hive tag on a dtube video won't work.

  • @artgirl(69)· 2375d

    It's terrible. We shouldn't have to crosspost. The previous Steemit is better, anything posted on other dapps or communities shows up on Steemit.com and vice versa. They are making Steemit more complicated to use. 😢😢😢

  • @kus-knee(74)· 2375d

    Thanks for the info. I’ll have to investigate further.

    I posted in a new community that I created via Steemit.com but it didn’t post to my main blog. I figured out how to get it there too but it was a bit annoying at first.

  • @jaynie(77)· 2375d

    it is also likely a very good way to lose a lot of autovoters

    Exactly! I wouldn't think it would take too long before the culprits would lose that support altogether which seems rather senseless . It takes time, effort, relationship building and trust to earn those consistent supports in the first place... There would be no foresight in taking the route that would wreck it all.

  • @galenkp(84)· 2375d

    As you know I made an error cross posting my own post and will not do so again...I'm in the process of redistributing the rewards back to others as I type this as per a post I wrote earlier today.

    Someone I follow just cross posted one of their own posts and I couldn't help but to think it's abusive to the reward pool and I'll not be voting on it of course. If it continues I'll probably not vote on that person at all.

  • @riverflows(82)· 2375d

    I have been meaning to get to this for the last 24 hours - it raises things I've been thinking about too, though I usually go for the yay! positive side.

    I think anyone autovoting should limit to one every 24 hours, BUT of course those using their own autovoters are going to take advantage of the system. I'm going to be super cautious of voting cross posts UNLESS they are old posts - like @whatamidoing's dead post iniative, they are great for evergreen rewards and to start new conversations in communities.

    Encouraging and incentivizing sharing is a brilliant move to get good content to spread.

    Yes, and that's what I like about it. I'll crosspost things I really thing SHOULD be seen by multiple communities, and I like the way we can drop a conversation starter or a reason for the crosspost on it - i.e 'Hey @naturalmedicine folk, really don't want you to miss out on this!' as a community leader.

    I do not want to cross-post undeserving crap, as it is not in my best interest to do so.

    Indeed - as responsible Steemians too, we want to model responsible behaviour. I'd be very circumspect about exactly what I crosspost.

    I do think this has enormous potential, and I'm really looking forward to see what happens when we all get a handle on how it works. There will always be those who scam the system as you say.

    I do love the potential for community conversations too - eg I really loved a post by someone 6 months back about making your own witchhazel, and it came up in the Discord server, so I will find it and post it to the community with a note - the author will get new rewards and we get to benefit from teh content we might have missed the first time.

    Great post - I won't crosspost it, but will resteem it, and refer to it in my own post this afternoon. xx

  • @glenalbrethsen(71)· 2375d

    Hey, @tarazkp.

    I was kind of surprised to see how the crosspost actually looks—essentially a post to a link of the original post.

    I wonder why it is that way rather than acting more like a resteem, just within the community that it's crossposting too. Same post, different community.

    It would make more sense to me if it carried the same upvote and amounts regardless of where it showed up (similar to the way it happens when you look at the tag it's in, or your blog feed—same post, same accumulative STU). Otherwise, I can see it creating far more problems than it actually solves, mainly for the reasons you cite.

  • @blaogao(58)· 2376d

    Why I don't tag hive in and when I visit my post their is

    Posted using Partiko Android

  • @tipu(68)· 2376d

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    Check out @dswigle blog here and follow if you like the content :)

    Sending tips with @tipU - how to guide.

  • @dswigle(78)· 2376d

    I'm trying to see the good in cross-posting, from the point of the platform. I don't see anything but abuse being introduced once again and again.

    Upped and Steemed

    !tip

  • @raj808(77)· 2376d

    I didn't really understand that this feature created a new post until this evening when I used it for the first time. I thought that it simply allowed you to share one post to multiple communities, and so cross posted my short story to creativecoin community as fiction is very much relevant to what they are about.

    I can see the benefits of people using the function as a curation machanism, but I think that there needs to be some way to post to more than one community without replicating a post developed in the future.

    I'm not going to be cross posting my own content again after learning how it works, but there are many types of content that legitimately belong in more than one category. Also, some of the long standing steem communities that are none genre specific, like powerhouse creatives or OCD for that matter, are good examples of communities that someone might want to post in while also posting in a genre specific community.

    While this new feature really is a great leap forward I think some things need ironing out.

  • @jarvie(75)· 2376d

    Bookmarking this as we're really glad there is discussion about it. Even though we haven't seen any abuse as of yet we'd like to make sure any issues are addressed before they arise i guess. It may all end up hypothetical or minimal but it's still worth looking into.

    The first comparizon that comes to mind is Voting on comments is also a medium for abuse where people can write dozens of comments and upvote their own comments... but the good has outweighed the bad, even though users can hid votes inside of thousands of comments.

    I guess voting at all is a system that allows the ability of abuse.


    Anyway I'll go back through it and maybe collect some more thoughts more closely related to what was written in the post. Thanks for spearheading the conversation.

  • @stevenwood(69)· 2376d

    I constantly stumble across tales of abuses that I would never even think of, (although maybe that speaks to the properties of my slow-moving thinkbox!!!) this leads me down a particular train of thought. The people who discover and exploit such loopholes and engage in nefarious deeds and practices, clearly put a great deal of thought in to exactly how they can 'game the system'.

    Thus it occurs to me that if they only used these super-powers for good, they could create any number of creative, laterally thought up ways to help the community and likely be rewarded well for it too.

    I often think of this concept when reading details of the latest super slick, sophisticated scam to hit the world wide web uhm information super highway online world, the planning and creativity that goes into such schemes is the stuff great entrepreneurs and innovators are made of... We do indeed inhabit a strange orb of incalculably unfathomable human creatures, huh?

    Damn I'm rambling aren't I? Was I rambling? I should bring this comment to a swift conclusion before I exhibit all of my strange intricacies...

    If anybody reading this has any tips on how to remove an image that may or may not include cross-dressing from one's mind, please contact me on Discord (same name) or leave a message with my therapist.

    I will say it again. This has the potential to be a game-changer on the internet as people will be rewarded for doing what they are currently doing for free - taking engaging content viral.

    Kudos on this pesky little thought bubble! A little thought goes a long way in the modern world doesn't it?

  • @stackin(78)· 2376d

    I’m already confused 😂😂😂

    Posted using Partiko iOS

  • @paulag(74)· 2376d

    These updates have not yet rolled over to esteem and I have been accessing the block via my phone all week. Things are moving fast which is good, but there is a lot of change to keep up with.

    So can we still resteem or is that dead?

  • @oldtimer(76)· 2376d

    I checked one of the cat communities and found my old post there. I don't like that. There will be more bad than good, but we can always add more troops to Steem Police and watching policemen taking advantage of policing.

  • @wakeupkitty(72)· 2376d

    I have no idea what you mean by cross-posting via Steempeak. Is it like resteeming?

    I think that only if we resteem and show different kinds of posts we find out what the audience/steemians like. For sure it is not (only) what we see in trending.

    Posted using Partiko Android

  • @robertandrew(70)· 2376d

    Still a little unclear about "cross posting". Is it essentially resteeming or is it different?

    So what would I do to cross post this Post into Curie or Dcooperation ??

  • @acidyo(84)· 2376d

    Wouldn't be surprised if we saw a lot of old/inactive accounts share some shitty crypto "news" onto all relevant communities soon.

    Been having a lot of discussions about cross-posting soon and hoping the good will outweigh the bad usecases of it and that Steemit will also implement it in the near future. As mentioned in the past we at @ocd have been hoping for something like this to exist since our community is so general, glad Steempeak added it. Planning on how to best empower more niche communities with cross-posts but needs some thinking to make sure it's the best method and the one that can scale the best.

    Cross-posting this onto the SteemPeak community.

  • @actifit-peter(72)· 2376d

    Thank you very much for you deep review of the new "cross-posting" feature. I have a mixed feeling about cross posting when not correctly and wisely done, especially cross-posting own articles.

    You pinned down the problems very precisely. Hopefully this new feature helps to endorse good articles and makes them better known.

    I cross-post your article to:

    https://steempeak.com/c/hive-181925/created

  • @jdkennedy(53)· 2376d

    What’s the difference between cross-posting and tagging multiple ’tribes’? Or is it different because tribe != community?

  • @tecnosgirl(66)· 2376d

    I really wish people were not creating functions to cross post in their apps. When we post we are being rewarded so in essence we are being paid for our work even if it isn't much. We are basically free lance writers for these sites. So as a free lance writer if you write a piece and say Forbes buys it, you can't sell that piece to the New Yorker the next week. Not unless you are in some type of syndication but then that is a whole different set of rule and are normally owned by the same company or leased by the company that bought the piece and lease it to be used by another company. I personally don't like cross posting as I believe because of the reasons I stated above it is wrong, but also why would anyone come here if they can find the content on multiple platforms. It devalues every platform it is cross posted on IMO.

  • @abh12345(80)· 2376d

    I wonder if there is an easy way in steemsql or on the chain to tell if a post has been cross-posted? Would like to see who's been cross-posting thus far.