Ask the Hive

AskHive: How do you feel about SBI (@steembasicincome)?

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Basic Income - A Novel Blockchain Solution on Hive?

This post is inspired by a recent query from @theplunge to the Hive community about some members of the ecosystem downvoting supporters of @steembasicincome.

If there is anything to be learned from COVID-19, it's that we need a more resilient financial ecosystem that accurately recognizes the value of essential workers. While recently seen as an impossible pipe-dream, given the onset of the COVID pandemic, Universal Basic Income is gaining recognition in most political forums. What was once only fiction is now likely going to become a reality.

Enter Hive, @holger80, @josephsavage, and @steembasicincome

I don't know of any other technology or social platform, other than Hive, that has as any semblance of a working model for a Basic Income. None. This ecosystem is the only active control environment for any type of perpetual Basic Income program - with over 4,000 active users. With some refining, I think @steembasicincome, and Hive, could be a potential test bed of a larger Basic Income program.

As a former strategist in the financial services sector, I believe that the blockchain, and specifically Hive, has a unique opportunity to address Basic Income solutions. That might sound far fetched, but (within the United States) the regulatory environment of the banking industry - and the split priorities between commercial banks and The Fed - has made it so that it has been impossible to move forward on the fundamental infrastructure (read: real-time payments and open banking) that would be required to enable a sustainable basic income - which is possible.

So I ask you, what are your thoughts on the SBI program, and a Basic Income in general?

All thoughtful responses will receive a 10 HIVE SBI sponsorship. Select responses will be eligible for one of 5 x 100 HIVE @steembasicincome sponsorships. I sincerely thank you for participating!

Basic Income in the Media

The World Economic Forum

World Economic Forum | UBI is the Answer to Inequalities

The Pope

The Hill | The Pope Supports UBI

Comments · 39

@worrypost(36)· 2294d
Have you considered some technical measures for Sybil resistance, like digital passports or other government issued certificates?
@circa(62)· 2313d
@jongolson, @preparedwombat, @a-non-e-moose, @gwilberiol, @stellabelle, @themanualbot, @sgerhart, @curatorcat, @stevescoins, @elbrava, @fredkese, @minismallholding, @steevc, @ecoinstar, @proto26, @amberyooper, @justatouchfey, @wholeself-in, @anderssinho, @ammonite, @jarunik, @chekohler, @jjprac, @reinaldoverdu, @jager567, @cwow2

Thank you for your participation. I wish I had the opportunity to respond to each of your posts.

All willing participants have been granted a 10 Hive SBI sponsorship.

@buggedout, @erh.germany received a 100 Hive SBI sponsorship for their engagement.

@no-advice, @abitcoinskeptic, and @stevescoins received a 100 Hive SBI sponsorship based on a random draw of all remaining participants.
@fredkese(72)· 2314d
It helps keep people here but ultimately, if you have more money to buy more shares, you earn more. Come what may, the rich will still be getting richer. It doesn't add much, and it's absence isn't that much felt. I'm not sure there will be UBI anywhere though.
@angel33(39)· 2315d
Sbi is cool program
@joebboy(51)· 2315d
Both do now just hoping for the best.
@joebboy(51)· 2315d
For one to join such programs they need to be well informed .
@curatorcat(72)· 2316d
One at a time: I'm a big fan of SBI; it's a great incentive/prize to offer in drawings and contests, and particularly nice as a thing to offer newcomers to the site who are invisible, but might feel encouraged by the fact that they are getting a small vote on their posts. I was gifted quite a few SBI shares in my early days here, and they certainly encouraged me in the early going.

Yes, there seems to be a "downvote brigade" out there but I feel that they are missing an important point: SBI is not an "upvote bot," it's a long-term investment. I remember someone did the math on it over on Steem a while back, and you have to make something on the order of 40-50 posts just to break even. As such, it actually becomes a retention tool of sorts... because why would you partake in something like that if you were going to leave soon? Aside from which, you can't even buy SBI for yourself, you have to sponsor someone else... hence the pay it forward angle. Actually, one of my posts was hit by the "downvote brigade" today, and all I can do is just shake my head! It's a bit like having someone come and slash your tires because you actually have the audacity to collect the dividends on your stock investment. But hey, to each their own...

For the other part, I'm not sure about government sponsored UBI... more inclined to believe in some version that makes companies above a certain size liable for paying part of their savings from automation into a fund to help support workers permanents rendered jobless by automation.

For example, driverless trucks will will put 5-6 million drivers in the US out of a job... but both insurance and delivery services will save billions as a result. Not ALL of that should just be "corporate profits," some of that should go to people (in a collective sense) who were made OBSOLETE.

Part of the problem we face is that few engage in long term thinking. In 40-50 years from now, Humans will only be needed to do maybe 25% of the work that exists today. But they'll still need shelter and to eat. And if they have no means to get money, they won't be able to buy the products being created by the automation. In that context, UBI/BI is not "socialism," but rather "capitalism investing in its own survival."

=^..^=
@skapaneas(71)· 2317d
I have no idea how it works and I was getting votes from that sbi1 or was it sbi2-3 I don't know. I didn't ever bother to find out more.
@a-non-e-moose(56)· 2317d
I like the concept of basic income, but I'm deeply suspicious of SBI.

I agree with @buggedout in that to me it seems to me that "...SBI is basically just a sophisticated circle jerk and skimming operation.", or at least has elements of those.

I won't be participating any time soon, and I'd also like to know if I can remove the SBI unit I got mysteriously and how.

As far as general basic income, I really don't think it needs to be universal. I also don't think any money needs to be printed. The millionaires and billionaires don't need basic income, and might even be able to fund it with their largesse.

It boils down to eat the rich, pun intended.
@themanualbot(72)· 2318d
Hey, thanks for the subscription. Appreciate the kindness.
@angel33(39)· 2318d
Glad that sbi is in hive too
@stevescoins(70)· 2318d
I used SBI for over a year at Steemit; I had delegated a big chunk; here are my thoughts:
- It provides a good return for when you do post
- It provides a good return for other creators when you don't post
- Completely agree with @jongolson; people need to be rewarded to create, or they leave.
- Completely disagree with the "circle jerk" theory; it is technically correct,and functionally wrong. SBI is an investment in the platform. It is not "free money", because there is a price to buy into mutual support.
- Abusers are kicked out of the program. (Digression - I know a lot of ppl complain about quality of posting, but that is subjective; I think that catpic posting and isn't blockchain so cooooooooool posting are complete crap. It's my opinion. But those posts aren't spam. If we get butthurt b/c someone wrote and got rewarded for a post that we ourselves don't like, then we don't have the foggiest clue about what this platform is intended to do - ergo, save the post-hate for spam and plagiarism)
I will be re-delegating to SBI once I go over 10000 HP. Should be within a couple of weeks of powering down SP from justinccp-it
@erh.germany(68)· 2319d
In Germany, and especially in Switzerland, there has been a large UBI movement for many years. One could even vote for a corresponding party in the last elections. I myself was an active member of an organization for some years and I worked practically. I also maintained a special UBI-focused blog and wrote about a hundred articles there, all on the subject.

Since a few years there is a UBI project, which regularly distributes a UBI to winners and collects data through donations here in Germany. I am a silent monthly donor there. The inequality you are talking about is something everyone feels very clearly, especially since the 99% movement and the financial market crash in 2008/2009. Since money has become a virtual good and has in principle been made multipliable without hindrance, inequality is threatening because of this principle of unchecked capital.

In principle, we already have a basic income in Germany, but not unconditionally. Even if an UBI were to come, it would not change the fact that unimaginable amounts of capital are in the hands of a few or individuals who do not have to place democratic principles behind their actions and intentions. All this money tempts individual actors to have strange ideas about their own importance in the world. The most dangerous, in my opinion, are those who want to "save the world" or the people. Such people with a lot of money do not have to seek advice, do not have to bring their decisions through committees, do not have to go through a parliament or a council in order to act.

Actually, a restriction would have to be built in, which would introduce an upper limit of capital in individual hands or organisations at all. Without this limit, I am afraid, inequality will continue to exist.

However, an UBI seems to me to be suitable to dilute the inequality a little and to make oneself partially independent of having to take everything that is suggested as a necessity. The difficulty in making a judgement, in my opinion, is that we do not see or know everything that happens on the side of planetary existence that is considered useful.

Instead of overexploitation, the protection of species (animals and plants), instead of unhindered construction and the consumption of resources, a preservation of unused areas and habitats. Waiting and not acting would be necessary in many parts of the world where people do not have to fight for bare existence - i.e. food and water. To reduce oneself to the maximum and to reduce consumption sharply, to live from existing resources instead of always wanting to have the new.

If you are interested, I will give you some German sources, which I hope are perhaps also published in English.
@elbrava(59)· 2319d
I think that a universal income is a good idea. Tests have shown that people that get this make smarter life decisions, focus more on educating themselves and are happier due to less stress.

It is the 1% of the world population that have almost all money in the world that broadcast this propaganda that you are more free if you get nothing, have to work 2-3 jobs to get your children through college, after which they still will have a debt of thousands of dollars. This makes people slaves to the big banks and all in the name of freedom.

I do like SBI a lot, especially that you have to sponsor someone else in order to get something yourself. Also, unless you’re willing to invest a lot at once, which is risky because hive is still a young project, you won’t get massive upvotes immediately. Rather it will slowly build.

Sponsoring someone else is actually what hive is all about. When I vote for some blogpost that has sportstalk as a tag, then my 100.000 sportstalk tokens will give the writer a nice upvote, but half of that will come back to me.

My investment causes me to get a slowly growing stake in that token. Compound interest that only requires my voting to cause growth.

SBI is different here, because it requires me to write a blogpost. My votes will get lost in the sea of votes on this blockchain, but my blogposts will easily be traced back to me. The little SBI votes are for me a small encouragement to keep writing when I get almost no other upvotes. It does that for many people.
@sgerhart(54)· 2319d
I believe crypto/blockchain can solve economic inequality by providing individuals with ownership of their value. No centralized system can fix this It's basically good vs evil imo, if you believe we all benefit from our collective freedom, your efforts will reflect that. The inverse is also true, but in a decentralized system financial manipulation and oppression can be eliminated. Hive is a perfect example of this. We have the tools to overcome the supposed need for any system to provide for us, we just have to realize and take advantage of the opportunity to free each other and ourselves. Peace
@preparedwombat(79)· 2319d
UBI is evil socialism but doling out trillions to multinational banks and hedge funds is all part of saving capitalism.
@stellabelle(76)· 2320d
I don't have a clue how this works. Tonight, i decided to do the SBI, and sent 30 HIVE to SBI and i sponsored my friend Julia. however, i see no changes to any stats, and still don't quite understand how this works. When i went to check my status, it said my vote value has to increase to .038 (now it's .03). anyone have any answers?
@jager567(53)· 2320d
There are two topics in this question: Universal Basic Income (UBI) and Hive Stake Based Income (SBI). First, I'll cover the general idea of UBI, then I'll cover the specific implementation that SBI provides.

The most common version of UBI is a system where everyone will get enough money to stay above the poverty line. Everyone would get this money, regardless of your situation, income or social status. For context, I'm from the Netherlands, a welfare state. We already give a lot of money to the poor, theoretically enough to live from.

There are many differences between UBI and our welfare system though. To start, UBI is a lot easier to implement. All our welfare payments have complex requirements that should be met, while UBI is just a single price paid to everyone. This is also where a con starts to show up. UBI is not flexible at all. It's a no-strings-attached payment. But it does solve a couple of problems we're currently facing, mainly that it doesn't fall away when you start working from unemployment. (If you want to know more, I suggest this kurzgesagt video)

The team of the Hive SBI system claim to have created an implementation of basic income on Steem and Hive. It is not, however, a universal income. Only the people that can afford the tokens will get profit, and the more tokens you have, the more money you'll get. That means that it doesn't solve any of the problems UBI is designed to solve, and it's basically just vote selling. With one big difference.

The sole purpose of most vote selling bots is to play the rewards pool and abuse inflation, nothing else. SBI is slightly different. To get your investment back, you have to spend a significant time on the blockchain, and you have to create content regularly. Many others in this comment section have mentioned it already. It provides an incentive to stay on the platform. SBI encourages you to check back and write a post after a period of inactivity, because you'll have an upvote waiting for you.

While I do think that SBI is a lot better than most other (now dead) vote buying services, I still prefer to see manual curation. That was the original idea of the blockchain, and that's the only way forward for the blockchain.
@jjprac(75)· 2320d
I like SBI units as a reward for winning in various competitions, because even the organizer of the competition is rewarded. Fifty fifty. I'll get you and me. It is nice. They say without work there are no cakes. But the basic income to avoid starving if you lose your job is a good thing.
@no-advice(68)· 2321d
I am a fan of SBI, right from the beginning. As mentioned by a few other comments especially the retention of users is key here. If you own some shares you will most probably post more regularly and you will get better over time. I think everybody is free to do whatever he/she wants with his/her stake and can/should downvote low effort posts. However, in my opinion also downvoting should be well curated to efficiently counter abuse and should not solely be done on the basis of using SBI as a service. SBI is a great project and is helping alot especially in the beginning.
@steevc(80)· 2321d
I bought SBI shares for people in Steem, but have now taken a refund on that. In principle it's a reasonable idea to give people at least some income from their posts, but really they need to get others engaging with them. Hive needs more manual voting and less of the automoted sort. I made a bit from SBI votes, but it was a small percentage of my rewards.

Downvoting small accounts over this seems petty. We cannot afford to lose them.
@minismallholding(75)· 2321d
I know there were some users downvoting SBI users back on Steem, but didn't realise they were still at it or even doing it here.

I echo a few of the answers already here. It's a fantastic help for newer users and retention. There is the scope for abuse, but Joseph is generally on top of that. There also seems to be a limit on upvotes for one post, so it's not like you're going to get over rewarding a mediocre post.

The jury's still out for me on whether UBI will work in the real world, though.
@gwilberiol(58)· 2321d
I consider a low UBI--enough to cover the bare necessities of survival--an intelligent and practical support system, albeit with plenty of ideologically driven detractors.

In an increasingly unequal society, a consistent foundation is essential, while the economy would benefit from the wider distribution of resources.

Hive SBI is not a basic income, because the revenue it gives is (roughly) proportional to the investment. But it's an interesting experiment and I do like the principle of sharing revenue through sponsorship.

It has a few issues. The upvotes do not necessarily reflect the quality of the content being rewarded. Also I would prefer it if the upvotes were more slanted in favor of the smaller accounts/amounts of units.

But overall I am satisfied with how Hive SBI is being managed, and with how its problems are being recognized and addressed. It's good for user retention and a clever way to reward contests and engagement. Thumbs up.
@jarunik(63)· 2321d
I don't think basic income will work out in practice. I consider it non-competitive compared to other systems of distribution. I am happy to be convinced otherwise with empirical proof. It would be nice if it would work ... but i just don't see how.
@ammonite(73)· 2321d
I see SBI in much the same way as I see autovotes. People want to support their favourites and have a return on their investment. But where as autovotes creates a very two tiered system that it is hard to break through, SBI has the potential to bring up the lower accounts. ON hive/ Steem like we see in the real world money gets money. Obviously the reward pool has big distribution problems and until quality becomes the judging criteria for post rewards I am happy to see these tools in place for the little guy. I dislike automation in general on Hive or Steem and would like to see quality posts be king but once you are competing with bots I can't see that happening.
@anderssinho(69)· 2321d
I have been interested in SBI for a while now. Actually just started to read up about it a couple a days ago and tried to get a better picture of how it works and what they want to achive with the program. I think this is a great opportunity for many on this platform and I also think it could make it easier to attract new people. We want a diverse universe here on Hive with many dapps, products and communities here to make it thrive.

But, I'm here to learn more each day, so if there are any good arguments why SBI is bad for Hive, please comment and tell me why you think its bad. I'm open for any new information.
@chekohler(76)· 2321d
I still like the idea of SBI especially as we gain new users! We know the curation model will never solve distribution so I welcome things like SBI to help spread the inflation

I think the it would also be cool if tribes got on board and we had buttons on the front end of people’s profiles to make adding subscriptions easier like peakd has but on other front ends
@cwow2(73)· 2321d
I love SBI, SBI is one of the things that helped me from the beginning in Steem to grow and support others! Isn't it possible to make a SBI-Sink account for contests, so the Hive will be sent to the sink who will send the Hive to SBI and afterwards transfer the SBI Shares to the rightful owner? So we can get around the cunts who downvotes people who sends SBI shares?

UBI - Universal Basic Income will work 100% it depends on how its done. If you something like UBI as a safety net,like we have here in Denmark, it would be good. But 100% UBI wouldn't work, if you ask me :D
@buggedout(77)· 2321d
UBI is a lie that people who don't understand economics support. There is no such thing as "free money"

As far as I'm concerned SBI is basically just a sophisticated circle jerk and skimming operation. Stay on STEEM pls - don't bring that rubbish here to HIVE.
@wholeself-in(59)· 2321d
I always thought SBI was a good program, a great incentive and I have not seen evidence that it is readily abused.

I have a question, does SBI plan to continue to operate on the old STEEM? As I no longer intend to use that chain, I was thinking of gifting my shares to someone still there, if SBI will still operate over there.
@justatouchfey(63)· 2321d
So I ask you, what are your thoughts on the SBI program, and a Basic Income in general?

I think the SBI program is amazing. Back in the 60s or 70s the Trudeau government here in Canada ran an immersive Guaranteed Basic Income program (differs from Universal Basic Income because the gvmnt tops you up to a certain amount). I learned about it when I was studying about food security and gardening. I thought it was pretty amazing. I was really excited to learn about the SBI later on when I got into crypto. I think it's important to give people the tools to earn and feed themselves. We make more than enough food and materials to sustain everyone. I think a Basic Income/SBI would cut out a lot of stress, frustration, anxiety, and fear.
@abitcoinskeptic(75)· 2321d
SBI program: inorganically rewarding posts because it is voting buying/trading. But it is better regulated than most vote buying/trading. Fortunately, there are limits and abuse is dealt with. So it is worth having around because people see it as good prizes and incentives to blog or post.

Basic Income in general: Welfare and creeping communism. An absolutely disgusting economic model :)
@preparedwombat(79)· 2321d
I like SBI a lot and have sponsored many accounts for sbi units. But I’m also a big believer that people can use their stake as they see fit and that downvoting is not abuse. So if the accounts that hate sbi downvote me because I get upvotes from sbi, so be it.

That said, they do seem a bit hypocritical for downvoting posts that utilize the #sbi-skip tag.
@jongolson(82)· 2321d
I'm a huge fan.

And for one reason only...Retention.

When people come and feel valued here on HIVE, they will stick around. And SBI allows creators to reward people for producing on HIVE. The argument that even poop content gets rewarded with SBI might be true, but here's the thing...

Most people suck when they first start...Anything. And they will get better at producing content over time, especially if they are supported along the way.
@amberyooper(71)· 2321d
I've had shares of steembasicincome for quite a while now and I've found it to be quite helpful for my account. Some of the people that I sponsored in the past stopped posting on steem months ago, but that it their choice, I guess. I have thought about sponsoring a few people here on Hive, but I hate to sponsor someone only to find out that they've left the platform. In the past, I've sponsored someone in 5 or 10 share increments because it's more effective to their account, and mine, then just doing 1 share. Of course, that's just my personal point of view. I hope to see Hivebasicincome continue here on the platform.
@esteemapp(76)· 2321d
ESTM Boosting refund to @circa!
Due to one of these reasons:
1. Not posted from Esteem apps.
2. Already curated by Esteem team.
3. Need bit more improvement on quality of post.
4. Might be too old post.
5. User already received vote in last couple hours, you can try boosting again afterwhile.
Install Android: https://android.esteem.app, iOS: https://ios.esteem.app mobile app or desktop app for Windows, Mac, Linux: https://desktop.esteem.app
Learn more: https://esteem.app
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@proto26(68)· 2321d
I think Steem basic income is really amazing. It gives a chance to the plankton accounts that barely get noticed to grow and gain a following. It sure helped me when I was just starting out. Hopefully, governments and organizations can use it as a model to someday implement it in real life since this topic seems to be gaining momentum. Imagine all the people that would be benefiting from universal basic income, especially today now that many businesses are closed and people are out of work. Basic income has the potential to be a real life saver.
@ecoinstar(63)· 2321d
I think SBI is a noble endeavour, and I have used it in the past to sponsor builders.

I like the idea of karmic energy investment in the form of votes!
@reinaldoverdu(68)· 2321d
Well, I think it is the future, that it is a great help and solution for people from countries in crisis like Venezuela (where I am from) or other countries with serious difficulties. Providing a basic and universal income can save many lives, and in my case it has been for a long time, since if I did not have the sponsorship of sbi, long ago I was dead, and did not joke, I really recommend uploading, a reasonable, logical and very safe option, if you use they want to help someone, contribute with sbi shares and they will be guaranteeing you a future. Basic income is the solution to the world's famine and must be supported, it is the future.