scrobble.life
#hive

Killing Hive’s Social Potential -> POB Based Content Discovery

image.jpg

We had a long conversation during Hive Thrive today related to content discovery so while I am looping my Claude I had some time to put things into words. Mostly related to how our frontends do things, retention, issues users are facing, why those issues arise and what I think the solution is.

The main content discovery system on Hive frontends is based on Proof of Brain (POB) and POB, as it is used, actively destroys the social part of social media. Instead of surfacing posts based on real human interest, relationships, or relevance, frontends use POB to rank everything by how much money it earned. The posts that reach the top are simply the ones that collected the biggest whale votes. That is not discovery. Its a payout scoreboard wearing a social media costume making Hive frontends nothing more than database query windows into Hive with a usable UI.

This system is not a feature of the Hive blockchain itself. The chain only records votes and payouts. Everything users actually see, their feed, trending pages, notifications, is decided by the frontends. Those frontends chose the laziest possible approach: sort by one number (payout), sort by follow, call it a day.

In 2026!

That is not even 2006-level thinking. Newspapers from 1700s, London Gazette, put more thought in content placement than Hive frontends.

The problems this creates are severe and compounding.

First, retention collapses. New or mid-tier users quickly learn that visibility requires begging for votes. After the initial novelty wears off and the second or third post gets little traction, most people quietly stop posting or leave if they make it here in the first place (onboarding). Regardless of how much people that have preferences towards your type of content might like your content you are forced to literally beg for votes to get visibility. For you to get seen for what you made in a social environment the system forces you to beg for money, even if you only ever did care about visibility. That is wrong, that is incredibly stupid. It is not related to the Hive blockchain in any way. It is not related to any voter in any way. All it is related to is the frontends choosing to do it this way. They create this system and them alone.

Why keep creating when the platform itself makes your work invisible unless you perform the ritual of vote solicitation? Which ofc kills your credibility and hurts you directly... "Oh, he is begging for votes, he just wants money." Well you have to, apparently, otherwise no visibility to you, unless you have been here for years and by default many know you or curator worker bees find your post by scouring the database. That's no way to deal with content discovery.

Second, it prevents a real content creator economy from forming. True creator economies run on audience relationships, consistent engagement, and genuine interest. On Hive, visibility is not earned through social relevance. Creators optimize for what gets votes rather than what their actual audience wants. The result are distorted incentives where money and attention are fused in the worst possible way. And none of that has anything whatsoever to do with the Hive blockchain! Only with the "database quarriers".

Third, downvotes become nuclear weapons and retention killers. A single downvote does not just reduce a post’s reward, it actively pushes the post down the ranking, hurting its visibility for everyone. Why? Why would visibility be affected? Does Hive have anything to do with that? All the blame falls onto people that disagree on rewards. Is it their fault? Nope. Its the frontends fault 100%.

There is zero technical reason for this. Downvotes should affect rewards. They should not be allowed to affect reach. A controversial post can generate interest, can drive engagement, you can cut the rewards, that's fine, but why cut visibility to it when it might be incredibly relevant? Because frontends, thats why. Most people care about visibility, not rewards, especially when rewards are tiny, that is what social media is. If you disconnect rewards from visibility most of the downvote criticism goes away. At least 50% of it does entirely.

The current design turns every disagreement into a visibility assassination.

Fourth, the system destroys discovery, well honestly, it has no organic discovery whatsoever without algos, and forces the community to rely on external crutches. Countless high-quality posts with real engagement never reach the people who would care about them because no whale happened to see them and no one spammed Discord about them. Users miss important threads simply because they did not scroll their feed like a full-time job.

A platform that requires you to beg for visibility or look through external channels has already failed at being social media.

The solution is straightforward and long overdue: completely separate token allocation from content discovery.

Token rewards can stay exactly as they are. That part is fine. What needs to change is how frontends decide what to show people. We need real recommendation algorithms that learn from on-chain behavior, who you follow, what you upvote, what you click, how long you read, what you reply to, and what topics you engage with, what topics you show you care about. We need a social graph built from actual interactions on the chain, not from who paid whom the most. And its all there! Out on the open that every single person on Hive signed up to when they made a account and their first post.

Web2 platforms figured this out fifteen years ago because they understood a basic truth that

people return to platforms that show them things they actually want to see.

Hive can have all the decentralization, censorship resistance, and token incentives of web3 while adding the one thing web2 does well, intelligent, personalized discovery.

The two systems do not need to be glued together out of laziness.

Frontends have spent years doing almost nothing with the rich on-chain data available to them.

“Here is a list sorted by payout” and “Here are posts from people you follow” is not a product.

It is a database query.

It is 2026. Users deserve feeds that feel alive, they deserve social media sites that do not require you to post your URL in Acids Discord channel or have his curators scroll through sea of posts so you get upvoted for visibility (how is no one seeing how utterly insane this is?), social media sites that surface niche voices, that help new creators find their audience without needing to DM whales, and that reward genuine engagement.

The blockchain already gives us freedom of speech. The frontends have to start acting like actual social platforms. Separate the money from the reach. Build the algorithms. Give people a reason to open the app that does not involve begging.

Some of our frontends are great at being a Hive power-user tool and that's fine if that's what we want and need but if you are talking about retention, if you are talking about competing with anyone anywhere on the basis of "social media", they do not make the cut in any way whatsoever. And when you vote their proposals remember that. Do not be just another monkey clapping with your cymbals for them.

image.png

FORCE them with your vote to do better, because if you do not, you get exactly what you deserve.

I did tell the guys during Hive Thrive I might write this. I guess ill DM them with the post URL, and post my article in curator Discord channels for their review if this deserves visibility, because I know most wont see it otherwise. 😂

Comments · 22

  • @fonestreet(73)· 45d

    All of this is very confusing—or at least it is for me. I started out here doing skateboarding and graffiti until I realized that the skateboarding community was way ahead, just like the graffiti community. I tried to stay committed to both, but there comes a point when you want to grow and realize that my posts weren’t getting the recognition they deserved. Then music came along with the contest—you know the one—and from that point on, after the contest ended, all my posts have followed exactly the same theme—hip-hop, culture, art, music—but the rewards aren’t worth my time here. There’s no sense of family, let alone friendship. I noticed my posts were getting low rewards, so I started wondering why my posts didn’t get comments, reactions, or rewards. Then they told me it was my fault that I wasn’t getting votes. So, to sum it up, the idea of decentralization isn’t entirely real. It’s just a little something for a select few—but what about the rest?

  • @tibfox(74)· 46d

    Yoyoo great post and talk - @mantequilla-soft just closed that gap on https://3speak.tv 👩‍🚒

    The new algo is live! It's based on viewer retention + the interests users pick themselves. We reused the LLM we already run for captions: it takes the transcription + the post data (body, community, tags, etc.) and works out what the video is actually about aka finds a general "topic".

    Also 3Speak struggles with viewer numbers right now as every Hive frontend but we've got one big advantage: everyone else uses our player. So on the retention side, we are covered :P The algo runs on the feeds, plus the recommended list on the watch page and the shorts feed, of course. We'll be tuning it over the next days/weeks, but I think this is a huge milestone towards actually feeling like an app in 2026 :D

  • @antisocialist(75)· 48d

    Minds has a 'latest' feed that is 'recent' here, then they have a 'for you' feed that is algorithmic.

    It gives a choice to what you want to see. https://gitlab.com/minds

  • @fiberfrau(66)· 48d

    !BBH

  • @friendlymoose(77)· 48d

    I'm not a big fan of algorithms that decide for me what I would like to see, hear or read, based on I already consumed. This reduces the changes of discovering new things. In Spotify you are offered new artists or bands, but in the same genre as you already listen to. I do agree that a stream of posts with the highest payout isn't good too.

    I prefer possibilities that allow you to exclude posts with certain tags or from certain communities. In PeakD you can configure tags to be excluded in the #all posts stream.

  • @davideownzall(74)· 48d

    Threads is a good example, in your home it can popup a post by a complete new account with 0 followers, and I can be exposed to thousands people, that's what gives gratification to who posts, I'm no one yet I get exposed

  • @eternavanidad(54)· 48d

    Yo soy nueva, hace 1 mes que estoy, incluyendo mi preentación solo hice 4 publicaciones, lo que siento es que para que te conozcan hay que pasearse por varias publicaciones y comentar, pero comentar bien y aún así no suelen responder todos, leer publicaciones lleva tiempo y hacer un comentario decente depende de esa lectura, pero siento que eso consume mucho ya que hay que buscar en un mar de publicaciones y muchas veces no encuentras algo de gusto personal aunque estés viendo dentro de una comunidad a la que se pertenece, es agotador.

    Luego el tema de crear contenido y que no llegue a mucha gente es desilusionante. Lo que veo es que: pasado el segundo día la publicación muere porque no la ve NADIE MÁS. Crear contenido para que muera a las 48 horas lo estoy sintiendo como crear contenido para facebook e instagram, motivo por el cual congelé su uso por un buen tiempo, pero crearlo aquí lleva trabajo real porque en mi caso debo citar siempre fuentes y buscar imágenes para ilustrar que no siempre se consiguen en los bancos de imágenes más conocidos entonces implica escarbar en internet hasta encontrar algo de dominio público en algún otro rincón.

    Llegé con la idea de publicar dentro de un nicho y varias ideas de publicaciones de las que puedo hablar, y quedaron en borrador a terminar de pulir pero...para el trabajo que me lleva y que no me vea nadie pasada 48 hs, siento que pierdo tiempo ☹️ Publicar 3 o 4 días a la semana para darme a conocer sería una locura de consumo de tiempo que no podría mantener sin quemarme. Creo que me dedicaré a otros proyectos que tengo y publicaré de vez en cuando por aquí para no estresarme.

  • @hivebuzz(74)· 49d

    Congratulations @lordbutterfly! You have completed the following achievement on the Hive blockchain And have been rewarded with New badge(s)

    You made more than 8000 comments.
    Your next target is to reach 8500 comments.

    You can view your badges on your board and compare yourself to others in the Ranking If you no longer want to receive notifications, reply to this comment with the word STOP

  • @sm-silva(56)· 49d

    If people used tags correctly and frontend interfaces enforced the use of relevant tags creating algorithms would be quite easy; but nobody uses the right tags for anything... Perhaps it would be best to take away the option for users to add tags themselves and instead use the AI ​​available in front-end systems to automatically assign relevant tags. The frontend actually has those options nowadays, but they hide them so no one can find them.

  • @marabuzal(71)· 49d

    Escribo, no mendigo. Voto. Me votan. Mis energías están concentradas en crear contenido si tengo suerte, de calidad. Ignoro detalles técnicos que aludes y parece que es una publicación interesante, inquietante. Saludos.

  • @steevc(80)· 49d

    I don't look at Trending much. Maybe it should be changed to 'Most rewarded '. Hot ought to indicate engagement, but does it?

    New people should look for communities where they can contribute. Connecting with people who share your interests is what you do on other platforms. I look at my own feed and the specific communities I follow.

    I got noticed by commenting a lot in the early days when I earned very little. You have to be interesting rather than annoying of course.

    Peakd has a feed of suggestions now. People can use things like that to get started.

  • @vikisecrets(80)· 49d

    Good points, some see no algo as a feature, but for hive to grow new approaches to content discovery are necessary. A workaround is to follow accounts you like or going through tags, you are interested in. These two workarounds actually work quite well but also because hive is not so big. The more is posted the more difficult content discovery and to get noticed gets, especially for newcomers. Some customizeable algo or feeds could actually be the solution. But there is no easy fix. Also nostr is struggling on that front. Some frontends trying algo and curated feeds, but also with limited success.

  • @asgarth(72)· 49d

    The idea that algorithms must be embedded in the frontend is legacy and centralized.

    You have Claude Code and HafSQL as the data source. Build an open API that every frontend can use to provide a great feed to the user (aka 'observer'). We can easily integrate it into PeakD (and I assume others can do the same).

    I tried a few different custom feeds (you can check them out here: https://peakd.com/@lordbutterfly/discover) and it's totally possible to add new ones.

  • @slobberchops(82)· 49d

    Do you think its better elsewhere? I had a short dabble at Substack, a more worldly and centralised place than here. After 3 posts I gave up, nobody was looking... sound familiar?

    If you have a solution, then out with it? Also if you find this world class quality stuff, feel free to forward it, I will vote it and re-hive it.

  • @fractoli(46)· 49d

    We need a frontend that is a forum and gives communities place to discuss their projects. Most are using discord which is a chat room and so discussions are difficult to have there as well.

  • @apshamilton(73)· 49d

    Anyone can create a better front-end.

    I personally like the completely non-algorithmic feed. I see only the people I follow with no manipulation.

    But I can see that others may like a more typical algorithmically created feed.

    So those that want this should create it.

  • @rockingfinger(65)· 49d

    Oh this well said.

  • @sanjeevm(78)· 49d

    Probably trending posts by views, comments would also makes sense, hiding the payout.

  • @lesmann(74)· 49d

    Absolutely! 👍🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽

  • @buttcoins(75)· 49d

    Proof of Brain Dead 😉

  • @antisocialist(75)· 49d

    Have you looked through recent lately? The pickens have been mighty slim.

  • @bulliontools(75)· 49d

    This is exactly why I created my own manual curation tool. Frontend searches are terrible and good content gets no visibility. I've found so many great sketches, watercolor paintings, food posts and personal memoirs I never would've found through a frontend or dapp search.

    I agree. The frontends definitely need to serve content based on what we like and ignore rewards completely.

    !BBH !PIZZA !ALIVE