scrobble.life
#steem

My response to Justin

When I first started here I didn't have a deep appreciation of voluntaryism; the belief that all choices should be voluntarily made. But the more Steem I experience the more I understand it's importance.

Crypto is an odd space unlike physical space because it's so easy to pack up and leave, to forge a new path, and remove any aspect of a technology or community that people don't care for by simply walking away. Digital migration of people is practically liquid or gaseous. We're not bound by physical houses or geographical boundaries. Gathering people into communities in this space requires mutual understanding, full disclosure, and an avenue for peaceful discourse when there's disagreement.

For our disclosure to you:

This community has been relying on the funds inside of steemit inc accounts for four years to onboard users and develop the ecosystem. Steemit inc has been acting this way, and publicly pledging this from the beginning of the Steem blockchain. On Febuary 14th Ned exchanged external money to give up this stake and use the money for private gain.

In the eyes of many community members this current episode amounts to an exit scam by Ned aided by Justin/Tron and facilitated through collusion with poloniex, huobi, and binance. It represents a massive portion of funding for our ecosystem, the loss of our lead blockchain development team, and a devastating financial loss to all investors if simply powered down and dumped on low liquidity exchange pairs.

This sequence of events poses an existential risk to Steem.

Acknowledgement of your experience

I have listened to your position and I'm trying to understand where you are coming from. If I hear you correctly: You paid money for Steem, and believe that because you paid for it that it's your property to do as you see fit. Is this correct?

Governance

On top of the belief that you're currently a party to an exit scam, I'm filled with righteous anger as you occupy our governance with sock puppet witnesses empowered by the very stake that I see involved in the exit scam. The only thing that tempers that anger at all is the start of dialog, which itself has been so turbulent.

Things look grim, but at least you're talking and tacitly acknowledging some harm and a minimal amount of appreciation for our position. You're seemingly starting to accept some feedback while forming an actionable plan. Here's hoping we can make that actionable plan mutually agreeable.

It's my hope that you can demonstrate empathy and sympathy for our claim upon that stake, and use your experience with this community to date to come to your own conclusion that you've unfortunately purchased something like property with liens or stolen goods. The title to the property in your Steemit account is far from clean.

I'm hopeful you'll see how bad it is for all parties involved who help that story line progress. Steem is left without a development fund, multiple parties are liable for various types of fraud, and business relationships that are built on trust are eroded.

Fixing this mess

In order for actual consent to be given it must be freely given. At the moment I see Tron's current actions with the sock puppet witnesses as holding on chain governance hostage in an attempt to flee with developer funds meant for steem investors. It's impossible for me to make specific commitments that are honorable while I see our chain is being held hostage by these witnesses.

I'm committed to figuring out a mutually agreeable plan that provides this community with development, governance with sovereignty, and Tron with financial opportunity.

Please have the sock puppet accounts stand down and let's schedule some times to figure out how we get out of this mess from there. I think these are the next necessary steps to peaceful resolution.

Comments · 33

  • @helpiecake(55)· 2359d

    Hello!

    This post has been manually curated, resteemed and gifted with some virtually delicious cake from the @helpiecake curation team!

    Much love to you from all of us at @helpie! Keep up the great work!

    ![helpiecake](https://cdn.steemitimages.com/DQmWvMeknd87N3rUppKfPrGZyf6xdbdfptC5yTHw64Fusoj/big-digivate-cake-gif.gif)

    Manually curated by @solominer.

    @helpie is a [Community Witness](https://steemitwallet.com/~witnesses).
  • @gorans(38)· 2359d

    Cool

  • @arcange(79)· 2359d

    Congratulations @aggroed! Your post was mentioned in the Steem Hit Parade in the following categories:

    • Comments - Ranked 2 with 101 comments
    • Pending payout - Ranked 5 with $ 66,34
  • @begood2me(55)· 2360d

    Why are the Justin Sun haters still on Steemit? Just go spread your conspiracy theories on Steempeak.

  • @jagged(68)· 2360d

    Justin's owned stake vs Community POV

    It's a tough situation, and listening to Ned's interviews, he was using his psycology knowledge to create a "Non-profit" model, to create a community mindset.

    It's a very effective form of "motivation", that corporations use, to get a buy-in from people who do not own the company.

    You talk with open language, use "We", "community", "us", to draw in a commitment of shared value and equalness. A version of reality.

    Realistically, Ned owned the original stake, found some of the challenges for Steemit way more than he wanted to deal with, and worked out a way to exit.

    Without the ninja stake, is Steemit at a point where it can survive? Has the community, and senior memebers, reached a level to move it forward? If Sun keeps the stake and tries to command control over Steemit in a centralised way, is that a good or bad situation for the future of Stemmit & Tron in a consolidating stage of Crypto? If Sun sells out his stake to make a profit, does that create an opportunity for Steemit to be a Crypto vehicle for venture capitalists?

  • @broncnutz(79)· 2360d

    This battle will turn worse than the Hatfields & McCoys. A hard fork is inevitable because Justin does not have the mindset to understand why we feel the way we do AND Justin will never want to admit he did not do enough due diligence to what he bought, Justin needs to go his own separate way and we need to go our way. I’m fine with it because Justin is to reckless and not a good enough leader to move us forward in a consensus matter. He’s brain doesn’t work like that and he’s not cut from the same cloth as we are.

  • @revo(62)· 2360d

    You guys need to negotiate. Stating he needs to remove his sock puppets before any negotiation can happen is one-sided and will likely lead to the stalemate continuing until he forces a hard fork on us. You need to offer him a reason to not hard fork the shit out of us and divest himself of his stake. I'd suggest a powerdown concession (maybe 4 weeks) in exchange for a portion of the stinc ninja-mine put aside for community development. Would this be something that might interest him?

  • @appalachain(59)· 2360d

    I agree we need to try to find a way we can all walk away happy. Mutually assured destruction isn't the way to go, but I'll tell ya right now, after the stunts he's pulled here, I will NEVER have ANYTHING to do with a project Justin Sun is involved with again. I don't care how "awesome" or "profitable" is is.

  • @sepracore(64)· 2360d

    Just thinking out loud ....

    Justin says he owns the Steemit Inc steem now. The witnesses/community say the Steemit Inc steem belongs to the chain always.

    I think the community and Justin should mutually meet in the middle and code it into the chain. For instance, let’s say everyone agrees that after 3 years, Justin fully owns the tokens. It could be coded that if he powers down on day 1, 100% goes to the SPS. If he powers down on the first day of year 2, 66% goes to the SPS and so on.

    This has several benefits. The first is it is coded so it removes the trust factor. The second is it is a win-win mutual compromise for both sides so we can move on from this.

    The win for Justin is there is a point in time that he will fully own his tokens unlike at the moment ... at least from the community’s perspective.

    The win for the community is this agreement keeps Justin here for at least that length of time. He will want to get a return on his investment, so he will likely develop the chain during that time. The second win is this gives the community more time to distribute tokens, further diluting the initial ninja mined stake so when Justin does gain full control it will mean less overall as far as governance.

    Just my rambling brainstorm. It is a compromise on both sides which means it is likely a fair deal.

  • @valued-customer(75)· 2360d

    "Please have the sock puppet accounts stand down..."

    I reckon this is only even useful if Tron and the exchanges execute the code on the chain already that declines governance through voting witnesses. Absent assurances - i.e. additional code - I can't see them doing this.

    Please use your influence with competent devs to provide such code to Tron for it's deployment, and hopefully we can proceed therefrom.

    Thanks!

  • @denmarkguy(79)· 2360d

    @aggroed, the question I keep coming back to — and which sits at the root of much of this entire circus — is that of whether or not Justin Sun was even aware that he was purchasing "encumbered" property (be that explicit or implicit) in the sense of whether Ned even made mention of the fact that the ninja mined Steem was "supposed to" be used for future development and marketing.

    "Due diligence" notwithstanding, it's a bit like a developer buying a prime piece of real estate that is technically without liens, not knowing that the land is very likely the habitat for an endangered species which would effectively block the developer's ability to build his shopping mall or housing development. "Caveat Emptor" and all that good stuff, but even high level transactions are often riddled with ambiguities...

    Was Ned just so hot-to-trot to "exit stage left" that he conveniently "forgot" to mention this small detail about the intended use of the ninja mined stake? Whereas it doesn't materially alter the current situation, if Justin was substantially deceived about the nature of his acquisition it would go quite a long way towards explaining why he is playing his hand the way he is.

    Keep in mind that I don't know the technical/logistical aspects of this, but could it be that a possible way forward is that a formal agreement is drafted and published that as of some pre-determined time and date, ALL witnesses — Justin's AND ours — agree to reset/update their witnesses to perhaps a ver. 22.6 that essentially mirrors the code that was running PRE 22.2, 22.444, 22.3 and 22.5? No changed powerdown time, no blocked stake, just "old" Steem.

    Risky? Sure... but make the whole thing EXCEPTIONALLY PUBLIC so that IF anyone was to renege, the effect would be that they were standing up in the middle of town square saying "Yes, I'm an untrustworthy cheat and scammer." The possibility of publicly losing face with the entire world watching can be a very strong deterrent.

    Perhaps negotiations can start towards creating an entirely new account called something like "Steem Development Fund" that can FORMALLY be declared and mutually agreed to as holding all/some of the ninja mined Steem, not just as a "vague promise" but as part of the Steem(it)'s formal structure... and that account be subject to special rules/exceptions written into the code. AND, could additionally be used/encouraged as an active "beneficiary account" for the greater community to support, KNOWING that the "donations" they send that way are formally earmarked for specific purposes.

  • @btcsec(50)· 2360d

    He is continously lying and trying to manipulate the opinion and public outlook on his actions.

    He would give a shit on community opinion if only he could. He will do it the very moment the power shifts to his side.

    Do not forget it.

  • @justinsunsteem(55)· 2360d

    Do you like Justin Sun or you just want to fuck him?

  • @masterthematrix(61)· 2360d

    I suggest that the Tron Stake gets sold in a public auction, where private investors have a chance to acquire Steem Stake with all normal voting rights included. This method would guarantee that the stake gets distributed to many different investors as possible, who believe in the future of Steem Blockchain.

  • @wattersblue(46)· 2360d

    How can he possibly remove his witnesses without fear of you guys freezing his stake again? Do you not see that is what this is all about?

    It's not about controlling the steem blockchain, he wants to ensure that you guys don't just take away the steem he just paid $10 million for.

    You guys started all of this and are not unwilling to work with him. He can't remove his witnesses because you guys will simply take his property again.

  • @sinistry(62)· 2360d

    I agree with everything said here, and while I’m not in favor of a fork that would nullify or redirect the ninja-stake (at present) I would strongly encourage our witnesses to keep it on the table until we’re safe.

    Simply put, Justin can’t be trusted and the only reason he’s Reaching out is because he’s backed himself into a corner. He’s proven, beyond the shadow of a doubt, his only interest in our community was a quick fuck and duck, and to rob as as he slipped out during the night. He got caught and instead of running now he’s back to sweet talking.

    Justin is a hustler and doesn’t appreciate the concept of fair play. I support no cooperative action or peaceful negotiation while he’s still in a position to influence our chain.

    Justin smiled to our face and buddied up to us while positioning himself to choke us out. Not we have him in an arm bar, but instead of begging us not to finish him he’s turning on the charm, looking for his next move. I say make him tap out before hearing anything he has to say. As long as he’s in the ring he’s not finished fighting and that means he’s still a threat. Nullify the threat, then peaceful negotiations can begin.

  • @chesatochi(73)· 2360d

    We need to stop this fight and make things progress.

  • @meedo(46)· 2360d

    insane crypto

    Posted using Partiko Android

  • @melinda010100(80)· 2360d

    Thanks you for your well written thoughts, and for all you do to defend Steem!

  • @cloudspyder(60)· 2360d

    Unplug those sock puppet and get it offline is the best thing Sun can do if he is true about STEEM development.

  • @borislavzlatanov(65)· 2360d

    My suggestion for a way out was for the community to buy the 70M stake at a price both parties find agreeable: https://steempeak.com/hive-111111/@borislavzlatanov/proposal-resolving-the-stalemate-with-tron-steemit-inc-a-concrete-way-of-moving-forward

    Thoughts?

  • @shmoogleosukami(73)· 2361d

    I think the best way forwards as of now is to implement a fix to the DPoS system that reduces the impact and risk of large stake holders on taking over the complete consensus.

    We should focus on that and only that. leave out any asset freezing, leave out the promised use of steemit stake for now. Deal with that after chain governance is back on track and safer from abuse.

    I think we'll have a very hard time getting justin sun to agree to keep the steemit stake promises intact. As far as he sees it, he brought steemit and it's steem stake and it's his property to do as with he pleases. So with that in mind, making the DPoS governance more robust against large stake holders makes more sense.

    I personally think having your MVESTS be divided between all your witness votes is the way forward. then you can also let people vote on as many witnesses and the want. An alternative is allow people to specify how many MVests they give in the witness vote. either way a persons stake can't then be used at 100% power on 30 votes.

    Regarding programming this in, we could ask the now former lead devs of steemit to help us out one last time on a critical update.

    This of course would take a bit of time, as you need to code and then test something like this. but it would be time well spent if we all have enough patience to get it done.

  • @glory7(76)· 2361d

    Thank you for the writeup.

    But I believe that simply demanding him to remove puppet witnesses would go nowhere. If you were him, how could you be certain that 22.2 would not happen again? The moment he removes his votes, 22.2 witnesses may fork out his stakes.

  • @bigtom13(69)· 2361d

    Thank you Dr. Aggroed! A post with verbs in it. Action verbs.

    I sincerely hope that your plan is acted on. It can be pretty darn straightforward from here...

  • @rentmoney(77)· 2361d

    For me, while I can understand where you are coming from the quote,

    " You (Justin Sun) paid money for Steem, and believe that because you paid for it that it's your property to do as you see fit",

    is exactly how I view his stake.


    I think its largely unreasonable to expect the man to spend stake to support the projects of the blockchain. Would it be awesome if he decided to on his own, hell yeah it would. I don't see any obligation for him to do so.

    Are the ones asking him to hand over his funds willing to do the same with their own funds?

    In the past Ned's Steemit Inc. decided to use their funds to support the blockchain but that doesn't mean that same responsibility will be taken on by the new owner of Steemit Inc and its stake.

    I think there's a large group being very unreasonable in this situation. I don't see any exit scams. I see a man who sold his stake to a business man. Its the idea that Ned's tokens (now Justin Sun tokens) weren't his own that's incorrect and what is causing allot to have an incorrect view of the situation.

    Unless someone can show me some sort of legal document that shows proof the STEEMIT INC. Ninja Mined stake wasn't privately owned the above is how I view the man's stake.

    Anyone in their right mind would do what they could to secure their investment worth millions and that is what Justin Sun tried to do after yous soft forked him. While I don't like nor do I agree with how he tried to take the power of his stake back (used exchanges), I fully expected him to fight back for the stake he rightfully owns and purchased with his own funds.

  • @farizal(64)· 2361d

    All this drama gives me anxiety to accumulate and hold STEEM. Hopefully there will be a win-win solution within a week or two that can at least calm things down.

  • @carloserp-2000(69)· 2361d

    In my opinion, the only way out of this problem is through dialogue and making agreements that benefit both parts, otherwise this war will be eternal and will harm us all

  • @sharpshot(69)· 2361d

    If this is true, Justin knew exactly what he was buying. https://steempeak.com/hive-100421/@ura-soul/yjovxoxe

  • @alexs1320(72)· 2361d

    This community has been relying on the funds inside of steemit inc accounts for four years to onboard users and develop the ecosystem.

    Keep in mind the result - it didn't succeed in bringing a sufficient number of people to the platform

    an exit scam by Ned

    How is it a scam? Ned invested his knowledge, time and money to create something. Now he is cashing out and starting something new, what's wrong with that? Have you ever break up with a girl? Why do you act like a melodramatic one? :D

    you've unfortunately purchased something like property with liens or stolen goods

    He did not. What you, unreasonable people are doing, is screaming at a new user that the old one was owing something to you.

    Steem is left without a development fund

    With the fund... It's... Still... A stupid beta...

    attempt to flee with developer funds meant for steem investors

    No, he is not Utopian to do that :D

  • @dobartim(77)· 2361d

    If someone had frozen your money - he paid for it, he would not have talked like this. Communication and negotiation do not have a good tone, neither of you acknowledges personal failures as if we were saints and he was a devil. We need synergy, we just have to look to the future, because with the old way we have a reputation that is falling, Steem is a value that is falling and we need investors and businessmen. We need to find a solution because here I see that both parties are right, he has private ownership and we have promises from the previous owner.

    We need a serious business team for negotiations, a new roadmap for mass admission, greater decentralization and democracy as well as the elimination of negativism in the form of abuse of the downvote.

    All the solos will fall into the water unless we find synergy, and he certainly won't leave Steem because of his reputation. Where money speaks is won by one who has more, so we should be wise.

  • @gabbynhice(67)· 2361d

    My honest opinion is that what ever happened Justin he had a oportunity to make something big in crypto. But he didnt think a same way as we think even he call himself a businessman. If he is a wise businessman than he invest lil bit more in steemit he help to get exchanges listing steem and onboard new people. Than his "investment" he can sell for much much more. But what we see now is somerhing crazy. There is no logic in that what he is doing. Or maybe i miss somerhing and he is something like George Soros 😁

  • @bosman(53)· 2361d

    We all need to calm down and try to fix this mess. We have stopped them from being able to hardfork chain. But we can't reclaim all top spots. We need to talk with Justin and find a common interest.

  • @lighteye(77)· 2361d

    A reasonable thinking. But a reasonable solution demands all the sides thinking reasonably. And that will be possible only in the balance of power.