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Witnesses meeting with Tron Representative Roy Liu (Full Recording + Context)

AusBitBank@ausbitbank (74)2366d

It's been a loong day. Here's the raw upload of the meeting that just concluded between Steem Witnesses and Tron and Exchange Representative Roy Liu.

I'll edit this post with more info and thoughts after a nap. There are some gold moments in here, but unfortunately not the sort of concrete actions we would like to see from Tron/Steemit.

Discuss :) <3 There will be another meeting in approximately 24 hours

Edit: I'm not sure the witnesses viewpoint needs to be repeated here. We just did it for nearly 3 hours on repeat. I think there's some valuable self incrimination to be found here and I'll mostly let the recording speak for itself.

Here are some other relevant events for context that day

Previous Meeting with Justin Sun (March 4th)

In which Justin declares that he has no interest in interfering with governance on the Steem blockchain (among other things)...

Justin Sun appeals to the Korean community for votes

image.png

Justin started trying to buy the votes of the korean community by saying he will implement any changes they want, as long as they vote in his witnesses. J came for a short discussion full of happy platitudes, vague hype and claimed he would do anything they want if they just vote for steemits puppet government and let them rush through a hardfork on their own. He left eventually, seemingly to go to bed.

Justin Sun flips out and rage posts

Despite public assurances of not wanting to interfere in governance issues, and then reaching out to Korean stakeholders appealing for votes for his puppet witnesses, for some reason Justin Sun felt this immutable blockchain transaction was a great idea.

image.png

Here's an image - thanks to bernies spam bot (that feels wrong to type)

A new tactic, lets just make new witnesses out of anyone that agrees to rush through his exchange bailout fork asap. He seems angry, desperate, and confused about what he's even trying to do at this point.

The memes will sustain me through the winter ahead.

I answered his questions, and watched the chaos as people tore him apart in the comments, discords, slacks and twitter. I even sent his updated statement to John Mcafee who has publicly aligned with our community (alongside Vitalik Buterin, Dan Larimer, Andreas Antonopolous and many other respected minds in crypto).

Once things had hung for a while, I pinged Roy Liu on the Steemit slack. I've done this dozens of times (more politely usually) with no response since he was invited not long after the "Partnership" announcement weeks ago.

image.png

Next minute we got a panic edit the post to just "Happy to talk to community". I immediately commented to him with a copy of his own original post again :)

MSP Town Hall

We've been doing some intense, long public discussions on all aspects of Steem for years now, but more often since the hostile takeover started. Unfortunately I don't personally have a recording of yesterday's town hall but it exists. If you have it please link below.

We were deep in a town hall with hundreds of participants when lots of this drama went down live. Not long after the post edit, Roy Liu (Tron) and Eli Powell (Steemit) appeared in the town hall and we got to see an attempt at damage control. Lots of (but not all) witnesses were present, and there were some interesting moments but it was announced that an immediate meeting was required. With emotions high, wiser minds insisted on a short preparation period (and time to contact other witnesses). That meeting is the original point and embedded at the beginning of this post.

Ned.

Ned is a bad steemian, and should power down. He's recently been trying to assist Justin with their disinformation campaign against Steem and it's governance system. One of his last replies was actively calling in the SEC among others .. Ned deleted his whole twitter history a few days ago. Ned blocked 90% of the "steemitans" who disagree with him on twitter. Next he started actively spreading misinformation in a twitter thread. Somewhere around @justinsuntron's post edit, @ned posted a "come to discord" thread announcing he wanted to talk. What transpired was a surreal clusterfuck of incompetence, lies and confusion. I begrudgingly turned up to record these 39 minutes.

I had a lot more, but I removed a heap of his "technical difficulties" as he figured out discord. I commented with the recording on neds post, gave him a final "fuck you ned" and moved back to meeting prep.

I've seen him doing the rounds on a bunch of other discords, asking people to vote for the steemit puppet government. He seems pretty desperate and lonely to me these days. If only he had engaged with the community before he decided to fuck us all, maybe things would be different.

Final thoughts (for now)

  • I have no interest in freezing or interfering with the funds of random exchange users.
  • My priority is the security and sovereignty of the Steem blockchain.
  • I don't appreciate being bullied into accepted untested, rushed code from unknown developers , with no public discussion, in order to "do a favour" and bail out the corrupt colluding exchanges who are still holding us hostage
  • I'm struggling to see how todays meeting will be different, but I'll still try.

Please follow me on twitter and help spread the truth about the #steemhostiletakeover .

Please vote for my witness along with other trusted witnesses or set me as your witness voting proxy.

We still need as much stakeholder support as we can get in order to stop a rushed hardfork against community consensus.

Comments · 32

  • @arcange(79)· 2365d

    Congratulations @ausbitbank! Your post was mentioned in the Steem Hit Parade in the following categories:

    • Comments - Ranked 3 with 97 comments
    • Pending payout - Ranked 2 with $ 101,65
  • @goldkey(75)· 2365d

    "STEEM Token on TRON"

    The exchanges are not powering down because they are going to support the "STEEM Token on TRON".

    • This is why Roy is trying to gain agreement for the 1-3 day powerdown, because Tron already has this.
    • This is why Roy is trying to get agreement for SteemIT to be the creator of the hardfork, so it sets the path to Tron

    Get Agreement with the Witnesses (Malicious Hackers)

    The Roy discussion is ONLY to gain some agreement. If/When the agreement occurs, ....

    • Steem token on Tron is released
    • Exchanges back this new Steem token on Tron
    • Witnesses rebel again because it's wrong
    • Witnesses AGAIN labeled Malicious Hackers

    Justin Sun has not changed his mind, he is just trying to get a path to Tron. Nothing else.

    The whole Roy discussion is Nothing but a PR campaign and business deal to them.

  • @bil.prag(76)· 2365d

    zajedno.jpg

  • @klevn(50)· 2365d

    notice.

    number 11 in his list..

    makes this person impossible to believe is a person with a million dollars.

    does anyone really think this would get people on board in a proposal?

    almost like a deliberate sabotage.

    sock puppet.

  • @chuuuckie(70)· 2365d

    Lets rephrase that "ned is a bad steemian"

    NO! He is a "bad steemitan"

  • @steemitboard(66)· 2365d

    Congratulations @ausbitbank! You received a personal award!

    Did you downvote Steemit's posts because its owner converted it into a sockpuppets factory? OK, you deserve that badge!

    You can view your badges on your Steem Board and compare to others on the Steem Ranking

    Do not miss the last post from @steemitboard:

    Use your witness votes and get the Community Badge
    Vote for @Steemitboard as a witness to get one more award and increased upvotes!
  • @steemitboard(66)· 2365d

    Congratulations @ausbitbank! You received a personal award!

    Look's like you do not like Justin. Did you really downvote him?

    You can view your badges on your Steem Board and compare to others on the Steem Ranking

    Do not miss the last post from @steemitboard:

    Use your witness votes and get the Community Badge
    Vote for @Steemitboard as a witness to get one more award and increased upvotes!
  • @kingscrown(82)· 2366d

    any tldr of the 3h talk? i bet summary of what Tron dude said can be put in 4 lines ;)

  • @jacobpeacock(74)· 2366d

    This entire post is such a treasure trove! Thanks for putting this together and making it through that incredibly long and eventful day where (in my perspective) we all basically had to endure barrages from various members of the opposition's wing-nut behavior!

    Honestly (for me) it was all a surreal cluster-cuss and had it been fiction it would have been almost believable.

    Cheers!

  • @lordbutterfly(80)· 2366d

    It's hilarious how much he wants to avoid exchanges having to give out any kind of official statement... Lol

    "But Justin you told us you will deal with this quick."

    No other words then: Scumbags.

  • @bmj(64)· 2366d

    Definitely some funny moments in there, and I admire the patience shown in having to repeat yourselves over and over and over again. Ron just doesn't get it the first, or second time somtimes.

    "Marty" was awesome!

    Loved some of your typed.. and then deleted comments too🙃

  • @helpiecake(55)· 2366d

    Hello!

    This post has been manually curated, resteemed and gifted with some virtually delicious cake from the @helpiecake curation team!

    Much love to you from all of us at @helpie! Keep up the great work!

    ![helpiecake](https://cdn.steemitimages.com/DQmTpdoHZHEFyZPjQdfmh6NYAZWoVK6rDJqmuFMF3WVN1VY/23.png)

    Manually curated by @solominer.

    @helpie is a [Community Witness](https://steemitwallet.com/~witnesses).
  • @viruk(56)· 2366d

    I think @themarkymark absolutely nailed it with the comment "you can move forwards by powering down"

    This repetition of "we want to power down fast" is ridiculous to me. Whoever powered up the funds from the exchanges should live with that fact - if they lose customers because of this then thats their problem in my opinion - it sounds like misappropriation of funds to me. This is absolutely relevant here https://definitions.uslegal.com/m/misappropriation-of-funds/ but I'm unaware of the implications regarding locale and duristiction in this example. I really dont think the exchanges should be bailed out in this way - and for what its worth, I think there should be legal review of these actions.

    The response "maybe we can find a way to make it work" actually makes me cringe - its frustrating to hear such stubbornness dressed up as cooperation. This seems to me to be nothing more than a demand dressed up in fluffier language.

    "I hear what you're saying - we're on the same page" - well if thats the case then why the continued insistence on finding a faster way to power down? Just get on with it.

    I haven't got to the end of this yet and will keep listening for now - but it seems like quite a frustrating conversation to me.

  • @free-reign(67)· 2366d

    From what I've heard in these meetings, Roy and Justin have offered no concession on any point. They simply repeat their "wants" over an over. They have shown to me that they have no intent on conceding anything except what they push.

    IMO, they are just trying to wear our witnesses down to accept their wants. The discussions so far have accomplished little to nothing.

    I don't know what to do, but these people aren't willing to compromise on anything if it means they don't totally get their way.

    Finally, I don't like the idea of "helping" exchanges doing what the guilty ones did. It sets a horrible precedent, and not only for steem. They should suffer from their decision, not be rewarded with a helping hand from those they tried to destroy.

  • @mrgreen(64)· 2366d

    sun 1.png

  • @cryptosharon(70)· 2366d

    The keyword is when Roy said that it's important to "let them feel like they have a gain" (near 2:34:00)

    1. Justin made a deal with the exchanges and he's out to lose the exchanges' trust if he doesn't hold his side of the bargain.
    2. His side of the bargain is now impossible to hold, so now Justin is afraid to lose more than his current Steem stake in future trust on the side of the exchanges.
    3. Roy now has the duty to focus on this investment. That's why he's so focused on getting the witnesses to make the exchanges feel that they're getting something out of doing Justin a "favour".

    What the witnesses propose as Tron's first steps toward a peaceful resolution:

    What Tron proposes as the witnesses' first step toward a peaceful resolution:

    • Most (if not all) major witnesses make a document where they say that the (specific %) stake vested and used to vote for them will back up the protection of the funds of the exchanges from malicious parties who would try to fork the exchanges out or harm their funds in any way.
    • (Denied proposal) Reducing the power-down time as a "favour" for exchanges.

    Extra points that were touched a lot:

    • The possibility of exchanges to decline their witness voting rights together with Steemit Inc. and Tron related accounts after a message asserting their disinterest in participating in the Steem governance.
    • A (denied) request to get a written statement from the exchanges expressing their wants from the witnesses, and what they can do for Steem in exchange.

    Curious tidbit:

    • Roy fake-laughs a lot whenever he's nervous or he's about to dodge a topic, question or comment.
  • @californiacrypto(63)· 2366d

    Damn I listened to the entire audio and the same thing was repeated for 2 hrs n 40 mins.

  • @firstamendment(58)· 2366d

    Just one great big fishing expedition. They aren't saying much except that they want the exchanges SP unlocked on an accelerated basis. They got everyone to say what they wanted to hear. Some witnesses sound far to eager to lock themselves into public positions before tron does something-they would lose their leverage if they do so. I also thought I heard a vieled threat from Roy at 46:50-like they planning such an exchange attack again.

    I wouldn't be surprised if Justin Sun/Steemit hasn't agreed to a fix rate purchase on Binance, or there will be an off chain accounting trick at an exchange with customer Steem being sent to Steemit but enough at Binance to still maintain account liquidity.

    As far as hkDev404 who was obtaining liquid steem by the millions from Binance while others had problems withdrawing. 2.5m were powered up to support the tron witnesses, another 500k-ish later went to poloniex from bittrex who [poloniex] to seed them with liquid steem

    https://steemd.com/@hkdev404

    For any poloniex users, please withdraw your Steem from there.

    We are going to need to get up to 17 witnesses soon, otherwise, I hope someone is testing a fork node.

  • @nonameslefttouse(77)· 2366d

    I've said this before but I'll say it again. This stalemate could last much longer than 13 weeks. What I'm seeing now (I have not listened to the entire broadcast yet) is stubbornness on behalf of Tron.

    STEEM witnesses made a tough call, freezing funds and voting rights, as a temporary measure, while the community waited for REAL communication. Tron seems to think things like hype and half truths were enough to convince everyone this merger would be smooth sailing.

    Instead of communicating, Tron fired back with a hostile takeover. They thought they outsmarted STEEM. They did not factor in the real power of this STEEM community. What's in that 22.5 code they're trying to protect? Why is that still so important after the ENTIRE community banded together in an effort to return things back to NORMAL.

    At this point STEEM is not trying to make a power move. STEEM is basically saying, "What's yours is yours, Tron."

    All those exchanges need to do is powerdown and go through the usual process. They made the CHOICE to power up, and it takes 13 weeks to powerdown.

    Tron says they're not interested in governance. Their actions say the opposite. Again. What's in 22.5 that is so important? Why is that even necessary? Nobody is voting for 22.2.

    The solution is as simple as everyone turning around and walking away from a fight. No need for flexing. Tron can carry on with their plans to "make Steemit great". They can act like any other app developer on STEEM, since that's what they want, according to them.

    But it takes 13 weeks to powerdown, so deal with it. Or let's just let this drag on for 30 weeks? Not backing off, not removing the bogus sock puppet witness accounts, and not starting the powerdown is basically Tron saying they're not interested in resolving this conflict, they just want to 'win' an imaginary battle.

    That's how I feel about it, at this point in time, yet there's still over an hour of this 'talking' I need to listen to.

  • @resiliencia(75)· 2366d

    Thanks for sharing this @ausbitbank I will listen it later!

  • @intrepidsurfer(74)· 2366d

    Just listened to the latest meeting with Witnesses, Roy (TRON) and you. Fascinating. My biggest take is TRON's obsession to powerdown within the quickest timeframe possible. When he mentions (twice) who will prepare the next HF and execution, it is Steemit Inc. Which we know is now TRON, but when he talks about accounts enabled for the quick powerdown, he becomes very vauge about which ones exactly.

    My fear is after the code is reviewed by the witnesses and hypothetically accepted. Then it is for Steemit Inc. to execute. What is stopping them adding Steemit Inc. accounts into that powerdown scenario, this after the witnesses approved a HF without the Steemit accounts. Wouldnt it be relatively easy to blindside you and add the extra accounts to the list within the code? Then Tron would be liquid with 70 million Steem.

    Does this make sense that this feels a little like a trojan horse?

    Ps. Can I have a quick power down which is equal to what is being asked for by TRON. Why are the exchanges privileged to get this perk and the rest of us not?

  • @stokjockey(71)· 2366d

    I don't Trust Justin Sun as Far as You Could Throw Him. He is a SNAKE in the GRASS and Stop this shorter Power Down Talk......It's 13 Weeks and There is NO REASON to Give into These PRICKS...

  • @skepticology(58)· 2366d

    The exchanges were spooked by the witness cabal seizing the Steemit wallet and aren't powering down because they fear a fork that could affect customer funds. Witnesses acting belligerent towards this delicate situation are weakening confidence in cryptocurrency markets and should not be part of future negotiation conversations.

  • @joeyarnoldvn(68)· 2366d

    Thank you.

  • @geekgirl(80)· 2366d

    Thank You!

  • @broncnutz(79)· 2366d

    Let those exchanges bleeeeeeed! They made a massive mistake, they took us for fools and they conspired to take over a blockchain. They sill have not powered down and until they do....this will never more forward. Justin stands to lose a fortune on this.

  • @andrewmarkmusic(69)· 2366d

    In my opinion, the drama should end and the major players here should dialogue and compromise and sort things out. 50/50 Steem/Tron witnesses might be something to think about. The decentralized nature of the chain should be a high priority, of course, but so should scaling up the site for financial gain. Everyone should take their fingers off the trigger:P

  • @tamiil(69)· 2366d

    Going to sleep now, but whoever suggested for exchanges to start powering down now is 100% spot on. Even if coding was started now, followed by testing, it will take time. Meanwhile the exchanges could get liquid Steem back little by little, not waiting for God knows how long before the hardfork is ready. And once it is, they can get their remaining powered up stake out faster. I don't see what's the issue here is of not starting a power down now.

  • @onthewayout(62)· 2366d

    Show the exchanges how to decline voting rights (maybe they don't know how). It sounds like there are some language and cultural barriers.

  • @chireerocks(75)· 2366d

    @ausbitbank, Thank you so much for sharing this with us. Fell asleep while watching this session so, now about to watch this Full Session. Stay blessed.

    Posted using Partiko Android

  • @lordbutterfly(80)· 2366d

    Drakos kicking his ass. Will listen to rest tomorrow.

  • @jessamynorchard(68)· 2366d

    Dude, thank you so much for doing this for us. It is so appreciated. Having the access to this stuff behind the scenes means a lot to someone like me who loves this place and has a real heart-shaped vested interest in its well-being.

    The transparency is really appreciated. I like feeling like you guys really care about “the rest of us,” and especially in a world where so many keepers of the secrets pride themselves to meetings in the dark—-it’s nice to have an opportunity to find out about it ourselves instead of having to be fed (and subsequently have to decide whether to stomach) a tainted/biased summary from anyone else. I like having the opportunity to form my own opinions, and I just really sincerely appreciate you for making this stuff available. Infinite thank yous.