#community

Perhaps we need to speak as one?

I try to stay abreast of all things Steem, but at times - things simply go over my head. I need to see them in action and watch how the application affects me and others around me.

This is sometimes good, and sometimes bad. For HardFork 20, I think we all know that seeing things in action were pretty devastating for newbies. Necessary for the future? Yes, we've been told that now, our platform will be much more scalable for the future. But maybe, just maybe - the timing wasn't exactly right?

It seemed to me that we took an awfully big hit. As the founder of a community almost entirely filled with newbies - perhaps my perspective was a little skewed. However, I know that people like @shadowspub, @simplymike and myself (along with countless other unsung heroes) handed out delegations to newbies as fast and carefully as we could, in order to help them stay and keep our platform from losing people as quickly as we were signing them on. Were we successful? I don't know. I know that we lost a lot of good people who were enjoying the platform.

The reality of that makes me pause a bit on HF21, specifically on the content rewards proposal. HF21 will move the current rewards from 75 (author) 25 (curator) to 50/50.

I'm concerned that though this push for greater curation rewards is intending to put a greater emphasis on rewarding the recognition of quality content - that what will actually end up happening is a loss, once again, to the small accounts.

Small accounts already have small percentages of the curation rewards because their rewards are based on their vote (which... is small). However, large accounts will be taking an even larger chunk of the curation rewards, since now more is available to them.

Is this not the makings of "the rich keep getting richer, while the poor keep getting poorer"? Will this cause an even greater divide between the Steemit classes, making it MORE difficult for newbies to grow? At least with 75% author rewards, we are giving Steemians the chance to make their content attractive enough to lure curators. We ALREADY have a system in place that encourages quality content. Abuse will always happen and can never be truly eradicated from a system. Why are we making it that much harder on the people who are really trying to produce good content?

Especially when their small curation rewards won't make up for what they're losing in author rewards. Are we really considering taking from the poor and giving to the rich?

This proposed 50/50 change may or may not work to the end that it intends to implement. That's not the point of this post. The point of this post is this:

There are enough people who are worried about this change that I think it would be wise to table this change for now, and consider it for another Hard Fork.

There is enough going on in HF21 that will bring potential progress -WITHOUT adding in this curation rewards change. For the sake of the community, (that is mostly minnows with small votes, and therefore small percentages of the curation rewards) let's allow them to grow instead of the continued slaughter that seems to be focused mainly on them.

I know that there are a lot of people that feel this way - but are there enough voices to be heard? Instead of talking amongst ourselves, let's just see how many people agree that we should wait on the change from 75/25 to 50/50 rewards.

If you think we should wait on this change and take it out of HF21, please simply put your name as a comment below. If we have enough voices, perhaps our witnesses who represent our community will speak for us.

Thanks for reading! Long Live Steem! 🎉

P.S. I had considered not writing this. I don't like drama, don't want to stir the pot, and quite frankly - feared that it might cause retribution! And then I reconsidered. If I can't speak my heart and mind on the platform that I love, out of fear of being silenced , then this isn't the platform that I thought it was. If I would rather stay silent than possibly effect change, then I am more concerned for myself than my community. And so - I spoke.

^{Image 1}

Comments · 48

@medro-martin(62)· 2610d
@medro-martin
@heyhaveyamet(75)· 2613d
I completely agree. If this goes through at 75/25 we will lose. I understand they are trying to fix a few things, but this one will not help. If it foes through, not only will those who care about newbies find themselves scrambling to find delegation but they will be trying to come up with more ways to reward them so they will get a little more.

This however means that the new people will only see less of those rewards. This is a horrible shame to penalize those who we have been begging to come join. Those i have helped and encouraged to join in the past have almost all quit because it does not worth their time and efforts; now with HF21 they are all saying they will delete their accounts. It is a shame really that it is coming to this.

Thank you for speaking out @dreemsteem Ren
@simplymike(69)· 2614d
I had missed this post completely. Glad I see it in time, though, because I totally agree
@davedickeyyall(79)· 2614d
@davedickeyyall
@dkkarolien(68)· 2615d
@dkkarolien

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@ange.nkuru(66)· 2615d
I've read countless hf21 related posts over the last few days trying to keep an open mind but nope, I don't see this hard fork(speciall having the "intended" results. I sure hope I'm wrong and that we'll laugh at this one day but as someone who's familiar with payouts right around the threshold, I'm highly doubtful and would be even more terrified if it wasn't for dapps such steemmonsters, actifit, busy etc that still dish out hope.

But the way, would such dapps benefit more post hf21? Well at least that would be a plus as they deserve it, though I assume they'd also lose some users who'd just be fed up with the system.

I get that changes need to be made and probably a lot of them. But making them all at the expense of mostly newbies and small accounts, and at the same time is just too drastic, potentially leading to a mass exodus. I've been told that the steem ecosystem is just like a reflection of the real World and really, what did I expect? The rich shall get richer, so was written in stone.

Anyways, @ange.nkuru
@dfinney(69)· 2615d
Adding my name for the zero value it’s worth! Hugs to you and thank you for this post that really lays it out.
@mariannewest(75)· 2616d
@mariannewest
@fredkese(72)· 2616d
@fredkese

I honestly believe the 50/50 split isn't necessary now or ever, but I doubt if my voice makes any difference
@clixmoney(78)· 2616d
@clixmoney
@distantsignal(66)· 2616d
Agreed. Let the 50/50 rewards system play out on Palnet for a while and see how it goes. Then, make the case for it being implemented here.

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@wonderwop(67)· 2616d
@wonderwop

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@derekrichardson(71)· 2616d
@derekrichardson
@arcange(79)· 2616d
Congratulations @dreemsteem! Your post was mentioned in the Steem Hit Parade in the following category:
- Comments - Ranked 2 with 92 comments
@shadeserver(45)· 2616d
!SHADE 2 Thanks for sharing on Pimp Your Post Thursday
@rebeccabe(63)· 2616d
we'll see what happens.. just going for the ride.. really have no say... :)
@bigtakosensei(68)· 2616d
@bigtakosensei

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@dswigle(78)· 2616d
I'm interested to know what will happen when all these content creators leave?

((She sighs))
@johneyreacko(63)· 2616d
Let's get our terminology right, this is a TAX ON CREATORS.

A decrease in creator rewards and an increase in curation rewards will destroy Steem's vision of being a chain that pays creators and will turn it into yet another ROI staking token.

I dont want this libertarian dream to turn into tezos2.0 just because stakeholders want greater ROI.

Roi WAS NOT THE POINT OF STEEM PROOF OF BRAIN WAS THE POINT OF STEEM

Also: the WPS has no cap, meaning ste can funnel into it indefinitely without stopping, meaning that in the event of a development drought or gridlock, funds will keep stacking up, effectively being inflation for inflation's sake.

Also, They propose BURNING EXCESS TAX MONEY, as a means of handling a bloated treasury. Burning tax dollars is chain suicide, who the hell would agree to burning their hard earned tax dollars?

The WPS needs 2 things to be successful 1 - a hard cap on size. 2 - a tax refund for creators who have contributed over a certain amount to the treasury.

Deal with excess funds by REFUNDING THEM, not burning them.

In its current state, I vote NO on HF20

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@jaynie(77)· 2616d
@jaynie

I really think this is going to make the whole bus go backwards if it gets implemented.
@zanoni(66)· 2616d
Agreed 100% Makes only rich richer and drives new users and middle class users away. But they don't want to hear our voices. But they will hear when the steem price goes down more and more.. But, then it's to late.. HF21 and downvote pool is not social, it's the opposite. Steem is getting more and more a testing platform for dapps and tokens. Have a nice day Tom @zanoni
@nickyhavey(74)· 2616d
Thanks for the tag @fionasfavourites and great post @dreemsteem but I'm not going to mince my words here.

HF20 was dog shit for new users. Way to stop anyone with a new account being able to do ANYTHING without a delegation of at least 100SP to make it usable.

HF21 proposals - premium bull shit (yes, I upgraded the shit to the highest of the high). Content creators don't exactly get big rewards as it stands and now with SPS taking 10% away from the rewards pool, the curation rewards slashing another 25% away and this convergent linear gobbledegook will mean that anyone who doesn't get more than 12STEEM on their post payouts could be 33% worse off.

Remind me again why content creators should stay on this platform should HF21 go ahead and hope to make anything substantial?

Content creators may as well post their content elsewhere and just set up steem auto to follow the big curation trails and get maximum return for curation for absolutely no effort whatsoever.

I'd even be "happy" with 2/3 author 1/3 curator but 75/25 is actually pretty good. Whales would get their "money" back after 4 x 100% upvotes each day which is not an inconsiderate amount - and curation doesn't cost them anything, it's literally clicking the up button if you like the article!

We all know what the solution is.

Flick the switch and turn off bid bots.

If that can't be done then for sure, the next best solution is to give manual curation initiatives (e.g. curie, helpie, c-squared etc) the backing of these bid bot accounts (which take up >30% of the rewards pool) so that the trending feed is filled with varied content that can give people both inside and outside of steem something to look forward to rather than seeing the same people posting over again or steemcentric apps which mean nothing to anyone outside of steem.

That's my 2 cents (or is it 1 cent now that the curation is 50/50 :) )
@bossel(74)· 2617d
@bossel
@nathanmars(75)· 2617d
Thank you for writing this post

In any complex system there will be always be disagreements specially in the early days. Our STEEM is no different

Bitcoin had few different hard forks ETH had one Monera had many

I was spend almost 17 hours a day for 7 months building Dtube community until I got distracted 70% steemit inc layover where I offered ned to that I could happily work for them for free for 2 years.

I really don't want to get distracted by HF21 because my vision of $7.77 with STEEM with PushBook Startup needs all of me

Sorry I'm getting back to building STEEM PushBook
@notconvinced(62)· 2617d
@notconvinced

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@imealien(66)· 2617d
@imealien I agree!!! 👍

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@elsiekjay(77)· 2617d
@elsiekjay

I have shared the same concerns so many times but nobody seems to care when you don't have the power. Should it go through, Steem will be as good as dead. What is a platform without creators? #no5050
@shadowspub(77)· 2617d
@shadowspub

I found the responses to @cervantes poll of a month ago interesting but have noticed several witnesses mention they have reservations about aspects of HF21.

I have put a new poll up that more options for those reservations to be expressed.

https://steemit.com/dpoll/@shadowspub/poll-for-the-wtinesses-on-hf21

Anyone can participate but really want to see the top 20 respond which is response to the community.
@improv(73)· 2617d
I also am against the so-called EIP.

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@thehive(70)· 2617d
I expect the usual to happen agreement about something and nothing comes of it.

The truth is this is a ploy t keep the major portion of the rewards to those with stake. It is nothing more than that, No matter what words are used to describe what the process involves or the result it is said to give, It wil give a higher reward to those with the power already,

It is a scheme to reward those who have more vested, plain and simple. New people who struggle to gain any kind of reward they can give to others. Will struggle even harder, reducing the retention of the user base unless the individual have a finance to invest.

Those who recieve a total vote of $1 lose 25% of that and get 0.75c. lets reduce that even more for your effort to you only getting 0.50c for your time and effort.

It seems it will take the person reading and being entertained by your content will put as much effort and time into reading it as you did.

The reason why you or us no body's are listened to is simply, We won't join together. We will do feck all to make a change and wait for someone else to do it. We have been through the process of forming a committee and doing elections to get something going. Why is that power of the people not speaking up for the people? Oh wait Slipped my mind, Controlled by those who have a higher stake.
@bengy(79)· 2617d
I don't know... I haven't completely been following this, but I do in principle agree with reward structure change (this might come back and bite me later!).

My biggest problem with Steem at the moment is the fact that there is no closing of the economic loop. What is the benefit in buying and holding Steem? At present, generally very little other than on chain prestige. This is not really a sustainable economy then, if the rational choice is to sell rather than buy.

Having a larger curation reward might encourage one to have a larger SP to collect more of the stake (and the sps will help develop dapps that encourage the purchase of Steem).

I know that it feels bad that authors will initially lose out, but at the moment, the rational choice is to collect Steem to sell... Not to hold and not to buy.

Perhaps someone can suggest to me otherwise!
@fionasfavourites(77)· 2617d
@dreemsteem

I agree. 100% and you have a full vote from me on this. It took me more than 18 months to reach my current status and with already minimal returns on my posts which are set to 50/50, I don't relish the idea of further shrinkage. I was plankton with HF20 and thanks to a delegation from @lynncoyle1 was able to build up a little again and return it when she needed it for someone else. The current structure already makes it difficult for newbies to get going - so much so if they have a great introductory post and respond/engage with comments as all "good" Steemians should, they run out of Mana so quickly and it takes days to replenish.

The result:

Loss of momentum, disillusionment and another wasted account.

I, too, do not believe that the increase in curation rewards will result in better quality. Nor is it going to address the issue of buying votes. On the contrary, I think it will have the opposite effect: those who can afford to buy the votes, will. The same applies to the downvotes - they are not going to stop; nor is the spam. Let's be realistic, the Steemworld is simply a microcosm of the real world and full of folk who will, can, and do, find a way to buck the system. How this is dealt with is a governance matter over which my friend @quillfire has opined, some would say, ad nauseum, but give him more than his due: he’s thought about it, said it and it makes sense. More sense than what is proposed by HF21. And no, he didn’t tell me to come over here and sing his praises….

Another point: we support our mates - that's also human. We support posts that they enjoy and/or which resonates for us and them. That's also human. You can change the technology as much as you like, but in the end, it's designed by humans for humans and most of us have feet of clay. I know I do.

If I am offered the opportunity to get an upvote from a whale if I post a link on his twitter feed or on one of his posts, will I pass it up because it may or may not resonate for him? Hell, no. Why, because that single vote will double, triple or even quadruple a pay out. For someone who puts time and effort into long posts for a pay out that is sometimes less than $1, well, you catch my drift.

Lastly, on the issue of quality, there are so many different views on quality which is an entirely subjective matter, and even if one were to set criteria for quality, these are subject to interpretation. Let’s look at Demming’s definition of quality, viz., fit for purpose and it begs the questions: what purpose and whose?

From what I have read, and I admit that the tech stuff is entirely lost on me, so I deal in principles rather than technicalities, I have to agree that HF21 will benefit the benefactors and not the intended beneficiaries.

@fionasfavourites

PS I am calling over @nickyhavey, @blockurator, @cheese4ead, @bengy, @zekepickleman and @thekittygirl in the hopes that they will add their 2c worth.
@thekittygirl(74)· 2617d
@thekittygirl
@brisby(59)· 2617d
@brisby(59)· 2617d
@brisby
@omra-sky(65)· 2617d
@omra-sky
@saffisara(74)· 2617d
@saffisara

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@bluefinstudios(72)· 2617d
@bluefinstudios
@naltedtirt(67)· 2617d
@naltedtirt
@audreybits(59)· 2617d
@audreybits

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@dramatoken(62)· 2617d

Such drama, you've earned a DRAMA!

^{To view or trade DRAMA go to steem-engine.com.}
@darrenfj(62)· 2617d
I haven't been following it enough to know what to think.. Still too new to everything and completely ignoring the math about it..

But just for fun..

!dramatoken
@josediccus(83)· 2617d
It's in implements phase already I think there's nothing we can do about it, other than to hope it turns out well
@hazem91(65)· 2617d
@hazem91
@chekohler(76)· 2617d
I've been reading some of the arguments for and against the changes and I think that people on both sides care and have good points but we didn't get into this space to side on caution. I know there's resistance to change because we don't want to lose what we have and the smaller accounts etc but what we have isn't good enough. Sad to say but I'd rather lose small accounts along the way (which would happen in any case at a natural rate), if we can grow exponentially

There are far more people that don't know about us than do so the upside of gaining new users outweigh the keeping of the few, as cruel as it sounds. I do also think STEEM and steemit will only be a catchment area and the other dapps and scot communities will be where its at

It gives us options and if you don't like whats happening on steem find a tribe, maybe become a big PAL user, that's the beauty of it all. STEEM is the gateway drug but shouldnt be the only getaway or drug, with all thats happening theres no no signle point of failure and we wont feel HFs as hard as we used to.

Just my 2 cents and nothing but love for ya!
@greencross(70)· 2617d
@greencross

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@enginewitty(78)· 2617d
@enginewitty
@dreemsteem(74)· 2617d
@dreemsteem