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Should videos live forever?

For the past few days, I've been trying to work out the plan, the coordinated plan, to move Threespeak into the new tech stack. I've written about this before, but it bears repeating: this thing is growing so many tentacles. But it's always like this. You begin changing one thing, and then a chain of changes must follow.

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For the past few days, I've been trying to work out the plan, the coordinated plan, to move Threespeak into the new tech stack. I've written about this before, but it bears repeating: this thing is growing so many tentacles. But it's always like this. You begin changing one thing, and then a chain of changes must follow.

Although I've had a few conversations with Matt and Tibs, not everything is ironed out yet. For one, we are definitely not going to be storing videos forever, at least not the videos nobody watches. But how we are going to delete them, and when, is a question that's proving very hard to answer.

What I do know, and I say this with respect, is that most videos on video platforms are duds. They may get some plays in the very beginning, but they mostly go dormant. I certainly have plenty of those videos myself, and to be completely transparent, I'm glad they've survived, even if I sometimes forget they exist.

But, and this is the key part, there's a big budgetary difference between the Alphabet company and our little video platform venture. YouTube can store terabytes of video for pennies, and I'm sure if there's one thing they don't sweat, it's redundancy of their files. We, on the other hand, are battling sea monsters with handguns, and I submit we're doing pretty good too.

With all that said, the key thing, or perhaps the winning combination, is to give people, Threespeak users, a way to conserve their videos if they so wish. Give them a tool they can use to reprovide their videos to our infrastructure once the time we're willing to store them has expired. Again, I say this without actually having a set expiration date yet.

To be transparent, and to pull a chair up to the table, most videos, and I do mean most, go to sleep by the fourth day. In other words, most of their plays happen during the first and second days, but by the fourth, they're pretty much sleeping like a rock. This is understandable given the nature of Hive and its payout windows, but this also can't be how we dictate how long videos should exist.

I think we might end up hosting videos "for free" for up to a year. Meaning, if after a year nobody has backed up the video, nobody has become a reprovider of that content, and the video isn't one of those evergreen videos, it will get deleted.

Is this horrible? I ask. I don't really think so. But only, and this is key, if we also provide a tool for you, the content creator, the person who put effort into making that video, to keep said video alive for as long as you want.

A video that's older than a year and gets zero plays would eventually be cataloged as "community stored", which in turn would tell our platform that the video is very much in cold storage.

I can then imagine the Video Pulse service I'm working on expanding to seek out the IPFS CID out there, in the wild, so to speak. If it's still alive somewhere, Video Pulse could reprovide that CID to a hotnode for delivery.

Now, this means, and this part is crucial, that dormant videos hosted by our decentralized system, whether that's SPK Network or something else, would have a very slow process of waking up.

THAT is the compromise.

But in theory, this buys us years and years of running Threespeak within a reasonable budget, surviving even the beariest of bears.

That said, I need feedback. I want to know how everyone feels about this, and what you think would be a sensible holding period.

MenO

Comments · 12

  • @epodcaster(68)· 2h

    Perhaps the option for how long we as the creator want the content to stay up can be a choice in the same way beneficiaries are a choice.

    One month = free 1 year = ___ Hive/HBD and perhaps that renewal comes at each one year mark?

    I am grateful that I chose to upload my first podcast onto Internet Archive because the podcast has long faded and the site is long gone. And yet those audio files still exist to this day. Which makes me think I need to go donate to them because they've been the storehouse for the podcast that started my entire podcast career.

  • @mortezayousefi(69)· 23h

    You can tell the user right away that the video will stay for 1 year If the user wants to stay longer, he must pay the video maintenance fee from year 1 onwards, otherwise it will be deleted Of course, you can save the metadata of the video so that later if the user wants to upload the video again

  • @lee1938(68)· 1d
    #hive #posh
  • @roswelborges(74)· 1d
  • @rishi556(72)· 1d

    I think you should give people a way to pay to keep their videos up. Youtube is the free video platform and they do that due to google's backing and storage. Their competitors work off of subscription models because videos are expensive, both to store and deliver(high bandwidth). Just look at Vimeo: https://vimeo.com/upgrade-plan But if something is really good and attacking people to the platform, make sure that thing doesn't get deleted even if it's not being paid for. Getting people using the platform will be a win! Cache boxes eventually right!

  • @molometer(72)· 1d

    In the early days of youtube we would be asked to delete the videos that were not getting views. This went on for a few years until someone decided that it may be beneficial to keep everything. Why you may ask? In my opinion it was to make YouTube the de facto video sharing platform on the Internet.

    This approach killed off the competition and remember YouTube didn't make a profit for the first 16+ years of it's existence.

    The difference between us and YouTube is that YouTube had the deep pockets of Google behind it.

    YouTube still plays ads on ancient videos and cops all the revenue as the video maker is probably long dead or not eligible for the partner program.

    YouTube also gets 45% of all ad revenue streams from every video.

    Maybe 3speak should charge the same 45%?

    I think the point is this. If you are looking for some obscure video from years ago chance's are that we will find it on YouTube making it the first place that people search.

  • @steevc(81)· 1d

    Someone has to pay for the storage, but I have no idea how much that should be. One thought is to let the user select a beneficiary percentage that will relate to how long the video could be stored, depending on what it actually earns. That may not be much given the current price. Storing for a year seems reasonable. People could be notified if their videos are about to go and then they can opt to pay to keep them visible, but as it stands they would not be earning from them.

    It's tricky to find the right balance with these things. I think most Hivers just want to earn something and don't care too much about their posts living on after payout. There are so many types of content and some will have value in the long term. It's hard to judge what those will be.

    I don't envy you this job, but it will be interesting anyway.

  • @pizzabot(60)· 1d

    PIZZA!

    $PIZZA slices delivered: @bulliontools(2/20) tipped @meno

    Learn more at https://hive.pizza.

  • @bulliontools(75)· 1d

    I'd look at a staggered approach. Maybe sunset videos after a month if they're not meeting a certain level of evergreen rewards to pay for themselves.

    If after a month they haven't met the criteria to keep them, set up an account to auto-ping several users and their videos in a post. This calls attention to it and if they want to keep the video longer-term, give them the option to pay a certain amount of HBD/HIVE for an extended period of hosting. If they don't pay, ping them one more time to give them one week to back up the video before it's removed from the server.

    This way you're calling attention to older videos, give people options and also not sitting on videos for months before removing dead content.

    !BBH !PIZZA !ALIVE

  • @alonicus(72)· 1d

    I think the problem is that everyone has a different idea of what is a short-term video and what is durable. Personally, there are some videos I watch on YouTube that were made decades ago and that I regularly re-watch. Mostly music, admittedly, which is something 3Speak seems to be very short of.

    I think there is a risk in asking the original creators to archive old videos, because what happens if they can't, won't, or agree to and then they go away or their PC dies ?

    In a non-technical kind of way, I can see an architecture (or maybe a policy) which looks like this....

    1. Videos which hit a certain threshold of views (or perhaps a steady stream of views over a couple of weeks or months rather than just the first few days) get kept as front line forever.
    2. Videos which don't hit this are kept for (say) six months. Then they are archived by community users willing to provide some storage space and access, ideally via a super-intuitive dashboard of some kind, not some complex installation that only makes sense to programmers. Each video should be stored by at least half a dozen separate users. Creators could be offered the option of making a payment every 6 months to keep a video current (a revenue stream for 3Speak).
    3. Archived videos should still be searchable. If someone wants to watch one, the should get a message along the lines of "archived video being retrieved, it will be available in approximately X minutes". A premium option to pay a little more for faster retrieval would be a nice income stream if it was technically feasible.
    4. When the archived video is retrieved, the user should get a message a bit like you do with on-demand movies with a "Play now" button they can hit when they've finished whatever it is they have been doing in the meantime.
    5. A small payment (ideally in HP) is made to the archiver when a video is retrieved. It won't really cover the cost of storage, but it's at least another Hive income stream for them and recognises the value of what they are doing.
    6. Something automated should monitor archived videos, finding new archivers where previous ones have become non-responsive, and ones that have been regularly retrieved could be restored to the front-line catalogue.

    But I appreciate this might be too complex, and I haven't got the data to look at the economics to see if it would generate enough revenue to cover it's costs and contribute a little to3Speak ongoing costs !

  • @stresskiller(73)· 1d

    depends on the content , some things are time related some things are timeless .

  • you must charge users for storage or-else 3speak will bleed. 10% beneficiary isn't a solution offer users paid plans for storage and allow communities to pin videos on behalf of user so that user can off-load videos & reduce storage cost with this, it'll be truly community driven IPFS storage video platform and only videos that matter to community will live long

    via HiveSuite