scrobble.life
#thoughts

Is Hive oversold?

I was going to write a different post today initially but after following a discussion by @apshamilton and @enginewitty I figured I'd give some thoughts to the matter of hive's price being paired up with steem currently.

Without diving deep down into the history of the hive fork, the lawsuit that hive stakeholders won, the garbage that Justin Sun ended up buying and then quickly dumping, let's look into what's been happening since.

Now I may be forgetting some things, so feel free to remind me in the comments in case I do.

Hive has since 2020 not had a "leader" per se, no company backing it, no real team trying to get it exchange listings and promotions. Most of this has been done by a few people/teams either pro bono or through the DHF.

The team behind @blocktrades has been working on Hive for up to 6 years now and as far as I understand at no cost to the chain, i.e. no DHF asks. While I don't personally agree with that and would hope they'd ask for backpay maybe when we're doing a bit better, it is something I come to appreciate. There's been a lot of work done to make Hive as easy and cheap as possible to be ran. This means anyone can very cheaply run a witness to keep decentralization and distribution of our ledger wide.

Off the top of my head, other things they've build: HAF, sub-second irreversibility, resource credit system and delegations, wax/beekeeper/workerbee stack, etc.

All while people like @crimsonclad have been checking for other hive listings on exchanges without doing the things every other currency out there does which is pay a heft fee to get listed and/or pay matchmaking fees to generate fake volume. And for good reason, cause most coins only exist to scam others out of their other coins.

Steem has from what I understand only had some development done to condenser since (the steemit.com website).

grok-image-3abce83b-b55b-45a3-9ba1-81f707c68aed.jpg

Now here's how I view some things.

Steem is a lot more proof of stake than proof of brain, this means that investors there do better there than they do here. Now why do I say that and what makes me sure of it? Let's take a look at @trafalgar for instance. On Hive he mainly curates, is he allowed to post? of course, but he knows/understands that when posting he'd have to rely on others to wanna support him and that the community kind of frowns upon self-votes if it's overdone. On Steem however, he posts daily and is trending daily, why? Because he delegates to a service there that gives him approximately 10x selfvotes back, meaning all of his voting power goes back towards him for maximum ROI. Here's 2 screenshots from his stake on Hive and his stake on Steem, as far as I know this is all earned since the fork and he kept both unchanged (i.e. stayed staked on both and didn't power down/power up any of them)

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That big discrepency shows exactly what I'm talking about. On steem investors get most of the inflation, they do not curate. Steemit itself may have some curation initiatives because other than that everyone has probably opted for max APY which in turn means most of his daily posts are probably low effort trash posts, not like the amazing posts @trafalgar used to have when he first joined the space which i very much liked and found funny.

Think about if things worked the same here, an account like @blocktrades would be posting daily and delegating to a @gotyourbackbro vote selling service, he'd be close to 40m HP today rather than his 16m he now has. So where has all the stake gone?

To authors.

Are authors rich and can wait for prices to be higher before making decisions on selling their stake? Dunno, have you looked at the economy these last few years? Most people need money and Hive has for a fact helped a lot more people out than Steem has since 2020 as is proof with stake distribution.

Why am I mentioning this? Because stakeholders on Hive are diluted stronger than there, which can affect the price.

Not only that but we also have active development through the DHF, which Steem also has one but never uses as far as I'm aware, this means even more sell pressure of Hive compared to them.

Lastly, let's get back to the market.

I've said this a few times before, but the market doesn't know all of this because we haven't been in the limelight of any crypto attention or outside news in a long time. The Hive fork itself was one of the biggest events that occurred that got attention back on us for a few weeks, big names like Vitalik tweeting about us, Justin Sun attempting to create a false narrative as to what occurred, CZ from binance apologizing for getting "tricked" into powering up their customer's stake and disabling withdrawals due to it. Other than that @splinterlands did some big moves but from what I've come to understand didn't do much for Hive itself as most players weren't even aware they were using Hive, so it was mostly just the regulars constantly posting about the game on Hive.

Other than that, we haven't had anything big happen and have kept falling down marketcaps.

3speak didn't make any noise, vsc didn't make any noise, valueplan did make some noise in certain regions but unsure if crypto people cared about it. My own projects, Holozing failed to deliver a finished product. POSH has done good bringing in traffic but very little has resulted in account registrations or adrevenue for our front-ends.

The general crypto people first care about the solution, to them DPOS was already not on a good standing due to them seeing BTS as a failed project, then Steem, then EOS. They're not aware of our tech now because most of those crowds never looked back. Others are either too focused building on the giant chains cause they have foundations, core companies like blockstream with outside investments, a lot of speculation money and active community mostly gambling on memecoins after the nft fad died away which was also abused and misused majorly.

As sad as it is, to the outside we're just another fork of the original chain. The original chain has a more unique name and does well in terms of traffic. They're not giving out inflation easily to people and are becoming more centralized than they already were.

We're the one that stood by our vision and morals and continue to do so but that comes at a cost (exchange listings, the definition of the word curation, development through the DHF on various things).

If investors who cared about longterm investments knew about the differences and were interested in something like Hive (DPOS, inflationary) I'm 100% certain they'd look at the price of Hive today and think it's a steal to get in on compared to Steem. Even our own users should think the same thing.

What's uncertain however, is, how long will outside investors stop caring about our coins, stop treating them as has-beens or "they're probably the same" and start looking deeper into what's been happening here since the fork and start understanding the value of the attention economy as it works on Hive and what it enables in a transparent and fair way.

[banner from grok]

Comments · 17

  • @davideownzall(74)· 11h

    I really don't get why anyone on earth should buy steem, why the price isn't dropping... It's centralized with self votes and abuses...

  • @gamer00(72)· 13h

    I would love to say that “if my current projects turn into reality, Hive might benefit too”, but I must admit that I'm still not completely out of the woods yet. These last few years have taken a lot of energy to get through, and I'm not that young anymore.

    Let's hope Hive thrives regardless.

    And as a personal note... this time I'm planning to stay around a bit longer than before, and try to document what I've been doing recently.

  • @wiseagent(82)· 19h

    Your post (a very good one, by the way) kept making me think that the clock is ticking for HIVE's appreciation. It seems the glory days we once knew aren't coming back.

  • @deanliu(83)· 1d

    Thanks for this wonderful post. I learn a lot!

    Question about current Steem: who's buying their tokens and why? Obviously based on their current status, there is no room for any imagination or story for investors whatsoever. Even if they give investors good return, still cannot explain why buy tokens in the first place.

    My guess would be that Tron (Sun) is subsidizing Steem, for whatever reasons I don't know. But it's pure guess.

  • @demotruk(75)· 1d

    Maybe in the short run it's oversold, but in the long run if the discovery loop remains broken, no it's not. We fundamentally can't have the feedback loop that is normal for a crypto to grow. It has become inevitable that Hive will simply keep dropping over time (or more accurately, any short term boosts we get will always fizzle out and fail to result in a positive feedback loop).

  • @hivebuzz(74)· 1d

    Congratulations @acidyo! You have completed the following achievement on the Hive blockchain And have been rewarded with New badge(s)

    You received more than 675000 HP as payout for your posts, comments and curation.
    Your next payout target is 680000 HP.
    The unit is Hive Power equivalent because post and comment rewards can be split into HP and HBD

    You can view your badges on your board and compare yourself to others in the Ranking If you no longer want to receive notifications, reply to this comment with the word STOP

  • @mrdani12(77)· 1d

    Truly Speaking Their is no promotional approach of hive, not in any social media platform, 99% of people didn't even know that what is hive, Hive need to be promoted in different way , like in social media, arranging Seminar in different country and do many more that hive get some attention for investors and users!

  • @seattlea(78)· 1d

    This a very good post, I thought that I knew most of the Hive history and what is happening now, but even for me there were a few new interesting things.

    I kind of get a feeling that at this point the most useful thing we could do with DHF is to get more exchange listings and create some noise about Hive even if it takes some bribing to get on Coinbase and a few more exchanges that are available to American investors.

  • Also the time is running out for Hive. 10y ago people did read and write much more. Today the young people watch videos for the most of the time and don´t have the attention span to read larger posts, let alone writing one. Therefore snaps&waves could be more important for Hive. But there the good ones are covered among so many useless bot snaps about games, etc. And the mobile frontends are unfortunately no competing with the big guys. It starts already with the navigation. Why on EcencyI have to hit a tiny back button instead of swiping like on X? So it´s a combination. No marketing whatsoever (the biggest factor) plus sell pressure due to inlation plus bad/complicated product.

  • This HIVE has shown that its policy is wrong, otherwise the growth in these years should not decline

  • @apshamilton(73)· 1d

    The vast majority of blockchains are not financially self-sufficient.

    By this I mean that they can't continue to run without external funding (foundations, VCs etc).

    Bitcoin and HIVE are self sustaining. There are a few others, but not many. The financial incentive to run the infrastructure for the blockchain to operate comes from the blockchain itself and the price is plenty sufficient to incentivise people to run the infrastructure.

    Blockchains relying on external funding will die when the external funding is pulled or runs out. Unless they find a way to create real revenue sources outside crypto.

    So one way that HIVE becomes well known is simply survival. If there is a huge die off of other crypto, then HIVE will emerge like the mammals after the Chicxulub asteroid.

    The other option for prominence is that AI discovers some of the unique and really useful features of Hive (as I outlined in my post.

    If neither happen then HIVE will continue to be forgotten by most but valued by the (privileged) few. That is also OK by me.

  • @mengao(70)· 1d

    Investors look at how their money is or will be spent. Investor are looking for profits. When they look at what DHF did, they will run away as far as possible. The damage has been done, and reputation will take a very long time to recover.

    We are currently under STEEM on market cap, so we must be doing something wrong, right?

  • @bibana(69)· 1d

    Although I understand very little about all of this and by “very little” I mean almost nothing at all, I really enjoyed this take on the situation surrounding the value of HIVE. As far as I'm personally concerned, there isn't much of a difference. I'm still a relatively new member and a very small fish in all of this, but I can understand why it matters so much to the big players who have been here from the very beginning.

    Interestingly, if I hadn't read this, I wouldn't even have remembered that I actually had a Steemit account at one point. I just happened to create it at pretty much the wrong time, in mid-2022, when the split had already happened long before.

    All I know is that nothing really kept me there, while something did keep me here, and honestly, that is enough to make Hive more valuable to me, even if the situation looks different in the market. For now!

  • It seens that market simply doesn't pay enough attention to Hive anymore.

  • the lawsuit that hive stakeholders won

    I think this was the first time I even heard about this.

    Even our own users should think the same thing.

    Yes. It is strange that many people are powering down even at such low prices. I buy as much as I can and I still think that it is far from enough😛I hope that I will be able to buy at least 1+k this month as well(after paying utility bills and framing a current art piece.) But I would love to see more people buying and powering HP. Even if many users would buy just 500 hp that would already be a nice sign. In recent times I can think only of a few users who I interact with who are doing good job gathering more stake or buying more HP. For instance @emmanuel50 is growing his stake and seems to be here for a long term. And @molometer is powering up A LOT of HP.

  • A very interesting and necessary analysis. You're right that the big discrepancy between Hive and Steem says a lot about how both chains actually work. On Steem, investors keep most of the inflation without curating, opting for max APY, which inevitably leads to low-effort posts. Meanwhile, on Hive the stake has flowed to authors, which has helped far more people since 2020, even if that also means stronger dilution for stakeholders and more sell pressure. What resonates most with me is your conclusion: if long-term investors knew the real differences and understood the value of the attention economy as it works on Hive, they'd see the current price as a steal compared to Steem. The question is how much longer they'll keep looking the other way. I hope that moment comes soon, because the work and the conviction are there.

    Thanks for taking the time to write this. It's the kind of reflection the community needs.

  • @bozz(83)· 1d

    Actually, to be fair, if he were posting here on HIVE he would likely be getting downvoted because there is a group of people who frown on that. Probably not the only reason, but it's reason enough to not do it. For a while I was posting on both platforms and then pulling all my STEEM rewards and investing them in HIVE, but I had to stop because I was worried about being targeted.