#politics

Controversial Conversations with Friends

This post is inspired by my lovely friend @ericvancewalton. I was writing back to a comment on his post in my notepad when it became clear that my response was becoming its own post.

Basically he and his wife just had covid, and I did as well, so we were of course inquiring after one another's progress as friends do:

I'm good! Just a very slight lingering congestion.

He mentioned that he'd noticed unvaccinated people seemed to be spiking higher fevers which in turn seemed to be burning the virus out more quickly.

Your theory on the unvaccinated is interesting... My daughter-22- ended up with it a few days ago, all the same symptoms as me except she spiked a fever of 104.2, then it broke and she sweated it out overnight and was fine the next day. When I say fine, all symptoms were gone. 24 hour covid.. bizarre.

At this point I began to ramble a bit, and realized by the end that perhaps my thoughts could benefit others. Maybe even be a bridge across the ever widening gap in this country. As Eric and I would appear to be on "opposite sides of the fence" by current standards, yet still maintain a good relationship, respecting one another's viewpoints.

So here goes:

I admit to usually feeling a little apprehensive discussing the vaccines since they've been so incredibly controversial and polarizing. You may be one of the few exceptions to this outside my family as I know you won't judge.

So basically: Hubby(51) and I(45), my son(19) and daughter(22), my eldest stepson(32), my mom(73), her twin(73) and husband(81) and one cousin(46) chose not to get the shots. My eldest stepson's wife(32), my other stepson(29)and his husband(30), 6 of my 7 other cousins (36-54) their spouses("") and one aunt(69) have gotten them all. My brother(37) his wife(35) and one cousin(49) got the first round and stopped.

I mention this because I've been monitoring all of us from the beginning... and we honestly haven't seen a big difference in any of our reactions to the virus. We're a very close family which fortunately remained in tact despite some of our political, religious and medical views being radically different, so I've been able to keep track without upsetting anyone. No one feels judged for their decisions. (Well...my one aunt might judge some of us- who ironically is named Karen-but it's a very mild judgment XD)

And as far as I know (other than my sister in law having a digestive issue that I'm reasonably sure is unrelated lol) there also haven't been any new ailments.

I know it's a small test group, but I have several other friends in similar situations with their families who tell me the same thing so far. Which is basically comforting, considering all of the information from both sides of the fence that make either covid or the vaccines seem terrifying.

It bothers me that it has become such a taboo, because the only people who seem to be talking about it are the loud, obnoxious pro vax and anti vax, who appear to want to prove themselves right with confirmation bias, and in many cases even seem happy when someone dies on the other side of the fence as their "proof" of being right.

Meanwhile if we could all just be open with each other, we might be able to dispell a lot of fears. If I have one conspiracy theory it is definitely that the overseers perpetuate all of this toxic division. So much exaggeration coming from all directions at once. And no honest journalism from any sector, just biased sensationalism. Buzz words and phrases like fake news, misinformation, conspiracy theorist- and yes these things exist, but they're across the board, not specific to one party.

So many people are standing behind lines and pointing fingers at the other side, behaving as if the issues are all black and white with no nuance, and their side is "right" with no caveats. Each backing their preferred experts who in most cases also have no grey area.

And just to clarify the reason I didn't get the shots- I do almost everything holistic when it comes to medicine and have done so since the kids were very little, so it just isn't something I would do. Basically as simple as that.

Not to say there isn't a circumstance where I would look to modern western medicine, but only after I exhausted all natural remedies first. Or in the case of something like my son's spiral fracture where a surgeon and a round of antibiotics was needed- but most of the healing process was also natural. He even chose not to take the pain meds(despite hubs and I suggesting the exception) opting for CBD extract and meditation instead.

Then we used collagen and protein shakes along with a topical ancient bone mending ointment called comfrey... the surgeon was so amazed at how fast Ethan healed that at follow up appointments he would parade him and his xrays around to his colleagues.

It was an excellent blend of new and old, common and alternative practices and remedies. (And a gifted surgeon we were lucky to have, he was recruited to a more prestigious hospital less than a year later.)

I would love to hear your feelings about everything. I think conversations between thoughtful, intelligent people with different points of view are vital if we ever want to return to a place of unity. Hopefully I'm able to show that not every person with misgivings toward modern medicine- pharmaceuticals specifically- are ignorant fanatics. We have a whole host of valid, well researched reasons for our cautiousness.

Just as I know there are people who believe strongly in modern day advancements who are also well educated on the subject. I personally would like to see more of that blend I mentioned and less demonizing from both sides, which is so counter productive to our growth and evolution as a species.

If it's only Eric and I conversing in the comments, I'm fine with that. But I would absolutely welcome anyone else with an opinion on the matter.

We are on a Blockchain that could potentially last forever, perhaps our grands and greats of the future will stumble on posts like this one and learn more about who we all truly were. As history and the news will surely paint a less defined picture.

Love to all of my hive peeps, no matter what "side" you land on!❤️

Comments · 6

@builderofcastles(74)· 1330d
Well, unfortunately, we cannot have a civil discourse over this because the Rubicon has been crossed.
- Forcing injections by multiple coercions.
- Withholding medical treatment for lack of test or lack of injection
- A test that was never supposed to be used to test what they were testing for.
- Redefining Vaccine to include this highly experimental mRNA VAXXX
- Lying about the test results of the experimental mRNA VAXXX
For these things, people should be hung up in the town square. And there is no disputing these facts.

There is only "We were afraid of this big scary thing, and were told the VAXXX would save us" and the irrationality that comes from that. Mass psychosis is real. Thus, this debate was never a debate, it was a war between opposing belief systems

Unfortunately this ends very badly. The biggest thing the VAXXX does is destroy fertility. We are already seeing the trend lines show this. And if it we could have honest debate, we would be having graphs of VAXXXed vs not VAXXXed because this is for the future of humanity.

But we won't have that, because this is a religious war. And the mother WEFers designed it that way.
@emma-h(70)· 1330d
I love how you've opened this up without judgement on either end. I personally just don't get into the discussion - it's now been put in the box with religion and politics as there are just too many opportunities for it to get way out of hand as a subject.

Personally I know people who have and have not had the vaccine and I'm perfectly happy for each to their own - I reserve my judgement as I feel everyone should have their personal choice and to be able to take ownership of that decision. The sensationalism is way out of hand and I'm quite sick of it all to be honest. We've already had to deal with the communal trauma of the onslaught of the pandemic, it's about time that we all had the opportunity to just calm down and live a little.
@selfhelp4trolls(76)· 1330d
I feel you. I’m becoming more of a moderate with age although I’m not sure I’m changing as much as society. When I was young it felt like there was one overwhelming majority but now I feel a polarity of people who are deeply controlled by different kinds of fears.

I don’t really think it's possible to pursued people most of the time, they need to come to their own conclusions , but I feel confident that if I can succeed in having positive interactions and loosening up some of the fear, and trying to lead by example and not force my dogma onto others, slowly things will improve. sometimes i change the topic and sometimes I just answer questions honestly without the intention of changing someone’s mind. Eventually I think we can get back to talking to each other with a little more respect and patience, but with more variety of perspective and without that one overly dominant majority of mainstream opinion. Everyone has their own path towards understanding their unique reality though so I have to audit who I spend my energy on, some people are easier to build bridges with so I focus on them.

I’m glad you family doesn’t make anyone feel judged for their decision. My family has been the same, also half and half, and I can say the same about most people I am close with.
@ericvancewalton(81)· 1330d
I'm very glad you wrote this post, my friend. Throughout the entire pandemic I had been very open-minded about the vaccines. I felt it should be a personal choice, as it is will all other vaccinations, and tried not to judge others for their decisions either way. Prior to Covid my wife and I both were against getting the flu shot because we noticed with, me especially, that I tended to get the flu more frequently and more severely when I got the vaccine. They pushed us to get it at work and gave it to us free but I stopped taking it around 2010 and felt much healthier because of it.

I think seeing what my Dad suffered through when he Covid in 2020 put a lot of fear in me and made me change my mindset. That, and the constant media coverage about how deadly Covid could be. After experiencing Covid myself, albeit a much less potent strain than my Father had, I doubt we will be getting any more vaccinations.

There is something so terribly sinister about this pandemic and I know in my heart that we'll never know the entire story but it just can't be gross incompetence. From what I experienced with my Father it seemed the long term care facilities were purposely inoculating patients with Covid. He was transferred to one of the facilities to help him recover from a knee injury from a car crash. They were placing all of the patients in one common room together for most of the day during the peak of the pandemic. It didn't take a rocket scientist to know that the virus would burn through the entirety of the patients quickly, and it did. Once a patient had Covid it was the facility's procedure to move them to another facility that housed Covid positive patients exclusively. From what my family witnessed they were being sent there to die. My Father was in the second facility for 2 1/2 days before I demanded he be taken to the emergency room by ambulance. He was so bloated he was unrecognizable to us. The hospital told us it appeared he hadn't been given food, water, or meds in almost three days and he was going into kidney failure. We all believe that if he had been given adequate care those first few days that he would still be with us. To add insult to injury the Governor of Ohio issued a blanket immunity to this facilities so they couldn't be sued, not that any amount money could ever replace my Dad.

I had a anarchistic-leaning mentality before this (mainly sparked by the 2008 Housing Crisis where we came close to losing our house but witnessed big banks getting bailed out with tax dollars) but after experiencing what I did during the pandemic with my Dad and experiencing Covid myself it cemented a few things into my psyche. I truly believe that each of us have to look out for each other because those larger entities that we've been lulled into believing that are looking out for our best interest surely are not, in most cases it is just the opposite.

When I say "look out for each other" I'm referring to the trinity of our loved ones' health -- physical, psychological, and spiritual. I've had people close to me completely changed by untruths from fringe and mainstream media outlets. These, once vibrant, curious, loving people are now full of hatred and simply won't tolerate anyone that holds an opinion different from their own. All they do is regurgitate what their media outlets tell them to. This saddens me more than anything. We must realize that most of our media has been weaponized and it's more important than ever to be able to think critically and sort through the falsehoods. It's so important to be able to change your mind when presented with a different set of facts that make sense. When society loses this mental flexibility, those in power will have the only tool they need to keep us divided and within their control and, at that point, we are all doomed.
@owasco(73)· 1331d

I do almost everything holistic when it comes to medicine and have done so since the kids were very little, so it just isn't something I would do. Basically as simple as that.

This, to me, is the crux of the matter - medical freedom. The freedom to make this lifestyle choice. I am the same. When covid came round, I was unafraid because I was certain I would be among those who would not be terribly harmed by it. Boy was I ever reviled for not being afraid! For being confident in my ability to heal myself! That so many do not have this confidence saddens me.

I believe I had covid three times, although I did no testing, because I decided right off the bat that all the measures went against my beliefs, and would necessitate my disabling some of my core values. The episodes were decreasing in intensity, the first the worst. Was it awful? A tad bit worse than a bad flu, lasting two days longer than the flu, seven days instead of the usual five. I was afraid I would be coughing my brains out afterwards, which usually happens with the flu, but no. It all started with a tiny cough, and I did get very sick for a few days, but I had no lasting problems after seven days of flu-like illness.

I guess I would be in the anti-pharmaceuticals fanatic group. I avoid all western meds if I can, but of course there are some that are necessary in acute cases. In general, I take nothing, and have refused to take several that were prescribed. I take the pain killers though! Screw that.

For covid, I took absolutely nothing. I had hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin, but I always thought "Lemme see what happens if I do nothing." The third time was a very brief illness, at most 36 hours, just like your daughter. A high fever (103) for a couple hours that forced me into bed,and that pretty much was that. I drank water, ate nothing, took no pharmaceuticals of any kind, not even tylenol, and slept a lot.

When the shedding fears started going around, I was afraid. But I thought "I will not be afraid of my fellow humans for any reason" and here I am today, alive and healthy, even though I am in a supposedly high risk group.

I lost a lot of friends because of this deliberately contrived divide. I distanced myself whenever someone made a hostile comment to me. Thankfully, I am no longer excluded from places or events, and those folks who shunned me just a year ago are friendly again. Maybe the next time the POTUS refers to me as a "domestic terrorist," those who shunned me that last time will have a good laugh instead.

I hope we get a civil discourse going on here because it is very much needed. For both "sides" to accept and to honor the other side's views. That is freedom.

Thanks for giving us this space to discuss this in.
@dreemit(73)· 1331d