scrobble.life
#steemleo

Why Steemit, Inc. NEEDS to Increase the Community Creation Fee

Screen Shot 2019-10-15 at 11.01.06 AM.png

@pennsif’s tribe.talk episode yesterday featured @elipowell, @roadscape and @jongolson. They talked about the launch of communities and how they will work in the beginning.

One of the other topics brought up is the cost of creating a community. Creating a community is basically the same process as creating a new account with a few other minor formatting details. The cost of doing so is 3 STEEM, which is ultimately burned.

The price of 3 STEEM is currently about $0.40 USD.

Does $0.40 seem like a fair price to launch an entire community on the Steemit interface?

In the real world, $0.40 is about the amount of money I pay to the parking meter to have my car sit in front of Starbucks for 2 hours. It’s about 1/4th the cost for me to then go into Starbucks and buy a cup of coffee.

Does it seem reasonable that creating a community — which can be likened to essentially launching a business — costs 1/4 the amount that it would for me to buy a cup of coffee?

That makes absolutely no sense. The fallouts of having such a low barrier to entry are some the are known and many that are unknown:

  1. Name squatting — if creating a community is so cheap, why not squat the name of hundreds… thousands of online businesses?
  2. Community Creation Spam — if I were to venture I guess, I would say that within 48 hours of the launch of communities, there will be well over 1,000 communities created by less than 100 people
  3. Waste of an Opportunity
  4. … unknown impacts of a low barrier to entry

This third point is the most important one in my mind. We have all been taking about how STEEM’s inflation rate is too high. How there is such a small amount of burning happening on this blockchain. We also now have the @steem.dao.

We have two different opportunities here —> we can burn more STEEM or we can send more STEEM to the DAO. Why would we not capitalize on that opportunity as a blockchain?

Ultimately, this is Steemit’s product and it’s on their website. Communities are not a fundamental blockchain development and with tribes, communities are actually an inferior product.

Regardless, competition is good. Options are great. We’re finally seeing some progress out of Steemit, Inc. toward the vision that was laid out over two years ago.

How Much Should We Charge for Community Creation?

If I want to launch a business in the U.S., it can range from hundreds to tens of thousands of dollars, depending on the structure of the business you launch.

Forming an LLC costs $500 and a $250 annual fee. The fee for a corporation varies, but is usually $125 to start and $100 annually. Illinois offers a wide variety of business structures.

This is actually an annual fee. Forming an LLC doesn’t actually do much for you. It’s simply a starting point and then it’s up to you to build the rest of your infrastructure and business. Essentially, it’s a “tax” for the simple ability to start.

Starting a community on Steemit is very similar. You’re launching a business or maybe you’re already an existing community elsewhere on the internet and you want to come to Steem to build a web 3.0-enabled community on the blockchain with proof of brain tokenization.

I said this in chat during the conversation —> if you’re starting a community, $100 should be pocket change to you. People who can’t afford to pay $100 to start, probably shouldn’t have a community anyways.

With that said, I think $100 worth of STEEM should be burned or sent to the @steem.dao or maybe even a combination of the two in some sort of pay split. This would have the effect of burning STEEM and combatting inflation and/or funding further development of the blockchain.

Some people think that $100 is too much to start a community.. I think that’s utterly ridiculous. Even @roadscape said on the show that we should focus on the cream of the crop — the communities that actually have some sort of promise.

Why not create a barrier to entry that automatically filters out 90% of the shit-communities that people would create if the cost was 1/4th what it costs to buy a cup of coffee?

The entire Steem blockchain is a decentralized cooperation of people. If you want to use our facilities, then there should be some cost to doing so. Similar to how a government might charge tolls to use highways or how I have to pay a parking meter to park in my town when I want to shop at a store or sit at Starbucks.

This is a source of funding for my local government. It’s how they keep the roads clean, the streets safe and fund the development of local schools.

Why shouldn’t we think of Steem in the same way? As a government body that needs to source funding for further development? Why charge $0.40 for something when you can charge $100 and actually make it a better environment because there will be less spam and name squatting?

Just to tie a nice bow on this, I think Steemit, Inc. should charge $100 worth of STEEM for community creation and send 50% to @null and the other 50% to the @steem.dao to support the price of STEEM and further the development of this blockchain.

As the STEEM price goes lower, it costs more STEEM to create a community, because the supply is less scarce.

As the STEEM price goes higher, it costs less STEEM to create a community, because the supply is more scarce.

Seems like rather basic economics to me. Two of the most important focus points on this blockchain should be funding further DAO developments and reducing the overall supply of STEEM.

Comments · 35

  • @shanghaipreneur(72)· 2504d

    What a ridiculous concept! how the heck are they running a blockchain business?

  • @trendotoken(59)· 2508d

    Congratulations @khaleelkazi, your post successfully recieved 0.021384 TRDO from below listed TRENDO callers:

    @d-zero earned : 0.014256 TRDO curation


    To view or trade TRDO go to steem-engine.com Join TRDO Discord Channel or Join TRDO Web Site

  • @d-zero(71)· 2509d

    !trdo

  • @steem-plus(74)· 2509d

    Hi, @khaleelkazi!

    You just got a 11.28% upvote from SteemPlus! To get higher upvotes, earn more SteemPlus Points (SPP). On your Steemit wallet, check your SPP balance and click on "How to earn SPP?" to find out all the ways to earn. If you're not using SteemPlus yet, please check our last posts in here to see the many ways in which SteemPlus can improve your Steem experience on Steemit and Busy.

  • @aaronsuncamacho(52)· 2509d

    The idea that $0.40 is nothing only makes sense when sitting in a developed world with 3 phones, 4 laptops, 2 cars, running water, food in a refrigerator etc...

    STEEM is not limited to a geographic location or a specific economy.

    There are people who live on < $1 a day... To them, $0.40 is half a days work!

    Posted using Partiko Android

  • @mysearchisover(70)· 2510d

    3 seems fine to me. Most users probably will have no clue how to make a community anyways.

    I think I can get a DBA - Do Business As for like $20 or less.

  • @blake.letras(55)· 2510d

    Everyone wanting communities to be expensive are looking for the quick buck through a pump and dump. The introduction of communities is a necessary tool for attaining mass adoption in the way that Reddit has. These communities are like subredits, and subredits are FREE.

    How do you expect Steem to succeed when it charges for everything that all the big sites give away for free?

    Steem is not valuable yet.

    Steem is a tiny community for now.

    (Only a little over 11,000 people with 500 SP and above!)

    Facebook didn't even know how it would become profitable in the beginning. Sometimes, you have to forego immediate earnings for future gains. The communities addition is not about making the STEEM price go up, its about making Steem a blockchain people actually want to use. Once Steem is busy with communities, content producers and a massively diverse crowd of interests, then STEEM will go up due to sheer demand for accounts and RCs.

  • @skylinebuds(70)· 2510d

    I agree with you on this, If it was higher it would be a lot less likely to see spam and scams communities come around. 3 steem is kinda a huge joke

  • @arcange(79)· 2510d

    Congratulations @khaleelkazi! Your post was mentioned in the Steem Hit Parade in the following category:

    • Comments - Ranked 2 with 74 comments
  • @justinw(63)· 2510d

    On the blockchain, communities have a numerical identifier - so no name squatting issue.

    I think you are operating under the assumption that communities are exactly like tribes, but, they are actually very different products.

    and with tribes, communities are actually an inferior product.

    That is a bold statement when talking about a product that hasn't been released yet. With communities having moderation features, I don't believe that it is anywhere close to being an inferior product. It's more like the next evolution of how we do social media on a blockchain without everyone being in the same big 'bucket'. It's also quite possibly an excellent solution for content discovery which is currently a challenge with all of the focus on a global 'trending' page which tends to often be overrun by the same topic (Steem and Steemit) even with 'honest' voting being much more common after HF21/22. Being able to subscribe to communities/topics that you like to regularly see is quite a powerful feature.

    However, communities could certainly be used in the way that tribes are used by running a custom interface along with their own token, but, that likely won't be the most common application for them. Running your own interface and token could be likened to 'running a business' as you have explained and using them in this way would certainly come with additional infrastructure and operating costs, just like tribes do.

    How much does it cost to make a subreddit? 🙂

    Thank you for your feedback and this post - I appreciate the passion and care in regards to new developments on the Steem blockchain.

  • @crypto.piotr(65)· 2510d

    Hi @khaleelkazi

    Creating a community is basically the same process as creating a new account with a few other minor formatting details. Does $0.40 seem like a fair price to launch an entire community on the Steemit interface?

    I agree with you, that 3 STEEM is nothing. And knowing that value of creating account is so low ... it does create some particulart mindset.

    It's a terrible idea. If one want to create product that others would value, then this product cannot be super cheap from the beginning. It's better provide services for 'free' than to charge 0.04$.

    Yours, Piotr

  • @masterthematrix(61)· 2511d

    I agree that 3 Steem creation fee is too low in general. I would rather like to see a requirement to hold Steempower in the main Community account in order to stay active. The amount of Steempower to be hold in the main account depends on the size of the community. Lets say per 1000 users maybe 100 Steempower for example. Instead of forcing people to pay a certain price for creating a community I would rather like to see requirements for the certain size of each community.

  • @bala41288(80)· 2511d

    So, if it is going to be 3 STEEM per community, we will soon see Thousands of communities trying to do similar things owned by many people.

    STEEMHUNT1234 STEEMHUNT4321 STEEMHUNT3214 STEEMHUNT2143 STEEMHUNT1243 STEEMHUNT1234 .... ....

    Well then, I can start off a new community with any name and do anything I want now. Great.

  • @revo(62)· 2511d

    You’re launching a business

    No you're not. You are launching a community.

  • @jarvie(75)· 2511d

    For sure should not be 3 steem... but also not 1000 steem because that can become really expensive at some point if and when steem goes up.

    Somewhere in between?

  • @investingpennies(60)· 2511d

    3 steem??? What are they thinking.

  • @schubes(67)· 2511d

    It would be a waist not to burn some Steem for creating a community. I think a yearly subscription model could do well. STINC needs to take the burn opportunities they can get

  • @pennsif(77)· 2511d

    This post has been included in the 203rd edition of The Steem News - a compilation of the key news stories on the Steem blockchain.

  • @cadawg(70)· 2511d

    The only good thing:

    I'd make a community @khaleelkazi and you'd be on the VIP list! 👌😁

  • @stuffbyspencer(62)· 2511d

    People who can’t afford to pay $100 to start, probably shouldn’t have a community anyways.

    Wtf? What a horrible mindset to have. Here I was loving how open & accessible things like the internet, open software, blockchain + crypto, and Steem included, made things. I'm here to champion for a more open & accessible space, not another "pay up you fucker" type of environment.

    Feels so strange that you think this way since your very own words:

    If I want to launch a business in the U.S., it can range from hundreds to tens of thousands of dollars, depending on the structure of the business you launch.

    Are the exact reason I want Steem to be different. The current method sucks. Break down the barriers, allow anyone who wants to create a community come in and create one!

    Plus, I think with the whole "name-squatting" thing you're missing a critical ancedote: Reddit Creating sub-reddits is free, and Reddit has about a bajillion more users than Steem. Even still, it's not too hard to get a name you want on there.


    All that being said, if the price was raised to $1 - $3, I wouldn't be opposed. Especially if it went to the dao, that was a good idea.

  • @treepi(65)· 2511d

    So, raise the barrier to entry on a platform that already is lacking in users and dominated by whales. Smart.

    You're also assuming 3 Steem will always be worth about $0.40 which it won't. 2 years ago 3 Steem was over $20.

  • @nonameslefttouse(77)· 2511d

    Yes. The low cost made me cringe. I could earn enough with this comment, if I tried hard enough, to start up an entire community. I don't see how that low cost will bring in any outside money if these words are all it takes...

  • @marki99(62)· 2511d

    I get your point for spam prevention, but relying on this as a way to fund the SPS or even to burn some steem is ridiculous...

    We want to encourage people to build as many communities as they can, because in the end, everyone starting a community will be working for STEEM. A community leader will try to bring over new users, which need STEEM to operate, so they buy and the price increases.

    The value of STEEM is in the RC system, not in some burn for creating a community, you don't see big enough.

    And for the spam, well, who are we to judge? If you don't like a community then do not join it. If you like it, join it. What if you become part of a community that has 5 users total (including the leader), should we just discard this community in the name of spam prevention?

    What if a community starts by being useless, basically just spam, and then 10 years laters grows into something huge, something nobody expected? I think the 3 steem burn is great, 4 steem or 5 steem would be exactly the same, the point is just not to make it free (for extreme spam).

  • @yabapmatt(72)· 2511d

    Yes, it should be at least 1000 STEEM or more.

  • @acidyo(85)· 2511d

    Name squatting — if creating a community is so cheap, why not squat the name of hundreds… thousands of online businesses?

    This is not going to be a thing. @roadscape has mentioned it's just going to be a number ID that can be named.

    Community Creation Spam — if I were to venture I guess, I would say that within 48 hours of the launch of communities, there will be well over 1,000 communities created by less than 100 people

    Again this seems based on your first point being what you thought it was, it won't matter if your community is the first or 1000th to be created, what matters is if you can get it attention and if users will want to use it.

    Waste of an Opportunity

    of what? to burn more steem, to send steem to the dao? doesn't look like a lot of authors are doing this in general so why force it onto something like communities.

    … unknown impacts of a low barrier to entry

    Yeah, good one.

    Don't have time to read the full post atm but just wanted to point that out when it seems most was based on your first point.

  • @ash(74)· 2511d

    Creating a sub reddit is free. Do you want users or be known for charges and fees?

  • @rollie1212(72)· 2511d

    doesn't current price for creating tribe goes like 2000ENG which is 2000 STEEM imo Steem account doesn't equal to Steem Community) we need to onboard more people here to make STEEM more and more popular! Take a look at https://steemit.com/crypto/@stranger27/steem-btc-state-for-14-10-2019-ready-to-the-final-decline report. Steemit itself vs Steemmonsters

    only 2500-3000 people. its really small world with a huge potential, we just need to push it out!

  • @pele23(75)· 2511d

    Time will tell I guess, I find your point very valid. I won’t start a community for 3 or 3000 Steem, but if we don’t want to get spammed with “under water billiards community” or “people that look like pigs” crap, a higher entry point could be a good idea!

    Posted using Partiko iOS

  • @wdougwatson(56)· 2511d

    I see your point but I disagree. As you said, a community is basically an account with a few special features. I want a low barrier to entry. I want 10000 failures. That is how we will find the gold. A low barrier to entry is what leads to mass adoption. It allows for innovation from parties who couldn't afford to get involved otherwise. It worked with web 1.0 and 2.0.

    I do think it should be doubled though, with 50% going to the dao.

  • @edicted(83)· 2511d

    Although I agree the fee could be higher and we could all benefit from that, I also find it problematic to price these things in USD. I've always viewed 3 Steem as becoming a lot of value in the future due to massive gains/volatility.

    In my opinion, the price of these services should be determined by how much stress they put on the network, not some arbitrary artificial scarcity number we came up with based on legacy fiat.

  • @oldtimer(76)· 2511d

    Another mistake from the top.

    Than we'll need another Police squad to fight low quality communities.

  • @rollandthomas(76)· 2511d

    Great article and totally agree. I don't know how much it cost to start a tribe, but I'm sure it wasn't much either...all I could think of was the ICO bust we saw a year ago will hit the tribe ecosystem where 95% of the tribes will fail as well within the next 3-9 months.

  • @scaredycatguide(78)· 2511d

    The annual fee is a great idea...and some states (like MA) are expensive. $500 to create, $500 annual report fee.

    And yes, everyone and their brother is gonna create tons of communities to lock up names. I may speculate on a few if its gonna be that cheap. That price structure is a mistake.

  • @leo.voter(55)· 2511d

    Thank you for posting from the https://steemleo.com interface 🦁

  • @mistakili(77)· 2511d

    Yeah I will probably have like 10 communities of my own. Naaa, 3 steem? Can't be right, we could as well make it free, but what good would that bring, it doesn't even sound like a serious stuff if its at that price, you say 100$ one time fee, I say 150$ and 50$ monthly charges.