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#ai

What will we curate when the effort is unverifiable?

The good old AI question. When AI becomes so good that you can't detect it any longer, what will we be upvoting then? Just people? Their vision? Their opinions? Their contributions? Their goals? Their promises?

I think it's safe to say content hasn't been the main priority of curation for a long time now, and that's fine in many different ways. The main issue I see with the rise of AI is trust in newcomers and farms which may or may not be happening already while some users may already be relying on AI generating most of the content and even providing ideas on what to post today for your automatic upvotes. This is not one of those posts, however.

This discussion stemmed from me asking if an AI account greeting newcomers is a good thing when someone was constantly autovoting its comments to the top past all the genuine comments. My thought process was that if I was a newcomer who was tired of seeing AI everywhere in their current social media platforms who finally managed to get an account and start posting here, their first impression may not be the best to first see an AI generated comment greet them. I'm not saying the AI comments/bots are bad per se, but I don't think they should be placed above regular users as there's still quite a few regular users welcoming newcomers which is nice to see.

Another thing that happened recently was a new project that had posted in a community I curate in and support, their posts were AI generated and they were accepting rewards which I think is safe to say is quite frowned upon generally on Hive. The community account had muted the posts first but then had noticed that the project owner had been selfvoting the posts as well with their other project, which had resulted in the community account also casting a few downvotes on the posts. The project owner, furious about what had occurred complained that it didn't state in the community rules that AI generated posts aren't welcomed and that he may do as he please with his delegated voting power, to which he then had gone and downvoted several comments of the community account and shockingly even taken it so far to target innocent users posting into the community which I felt was a bit too far.

Either way, there will be a time where we'll have agents that have downloaded say all the posts you've written on Hive and have learned to write like you and about things you write about to be able to continue doing so. I can imagine I could probably create such an agent right now if I wanted to, it'd probably be quite a weird one trying really hard to create super long and confusing sentences trying to mimic me. My morals aren't letting me go down that route however, plus if caught I'd fully expect the community to turn against me and downvote the posts which I'd personally agree to as things currently stand. Would you?

But the bigger question is how can we know when that happens for others? How do we know if newcomers are writing their posts or if it's all just AI? How do we know if they're genuine users or just one bot operator running hundreds of accounts pretending to be different people?

I don't have a good answer for that right now, but it is things we're going to need to tackle at some point.

Focusing curation on users we trust is probably going to be a big thing in the near future, which may not be great for the barrier of entry that I've posted about, people being able to easily come here and quickly be able to earn a few coins compared to other places if we're full of distrust of any and all newcomers being AI. This also begs to question distribution of stake and centralization of inflation, but I guess that's not that big of an issue given how much hive exists on exchanges these days.

Anyway, kind of a dystopian odd post for today I guess with not much reassurance or providing any solutions, but some food for thought I guess.

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[img created with grok]

Comments · 30

  • @apshamilton(73)· 12d

    I've written a full post about HIVE's role in the AI Era. https://peakd.com/hive/@apshamilton/hive-price-is-irrelevant-but-hive-is-primed-for-ai-era

    TLDR: We are doing a way better job stopping AI Slop than most other platforms and HIVE is primed for the AI Era.

  • @mrtats(67)· 13d

    I think it is more interesting to think what would happen when AI has power, and coordinate between themselves to use that power efficiently.

    I believe we would see some stuff to that effect in 2027.

    It is currently, easy to fend off AI with a few downvotes. Because they are not agents that coordinate, they are simple stuff that only has a task to make a few cents for their human.

    But things will change when the goal is not a few cents, and they start to coordinate.

  • @zekepickleman(79)· 13d

    It is such a dilemma and it keeps evolving.

    It doesn't pay to get into the whole AI good/bad debate in comments on this post but definitely something to monitor and be aware of. As for Hive specifically, it could be a tool if not overused or leveraged to replace effort & genuinity. Maybe that is up to the court of individual opinion/curation.

    In my opinion, it doesn't take mnuch effort to have AI do a little heavy lifting and then pour my intellect, perspective and creativity on it for what I hope is good content. I know of a Hive user that has a passion, researches obsessively for the passion of it, and uses AI to summarize those thoughts and present a well assembled and informative article. Perhaps he could spend a little effort masking the pristine structure and inject a few personal colloquialisms but he might see that as a bad investment of his time?

    Anyhow, the goings on among those with big stakes and actions that cause real ripples here fascinate me. Hopefully people are trying to constantly learn, change their perspective based on facts, and evolve their contribution to match the times and not become cynical. Cynicism is easy and commitment is not.

    I search for the committed and constructive individually and hope my little support for those I find are tiny steps in the direction of the community I envision for Hive.

  • @mortezayousefi(68)· 13d

    Too much strictness drives away new users, leaving only a bunch of old users with repetitive posts

  • @ronnie10(68)· 14d

    I see that, writing a post or a short story from time to time is enjoyable, I think others would see it that way too. So, I do not get the idea of generating a whole post through AI. I mean, it does not have to be written in a certain way. It can just be simple. I think that one would think of answering the questions that you were raising for himself while reading your article. Plus, I saw the same in comment section. But, I think the part that was overlooked is the newcomers. If a newcomer is reading this, how would they compete with different AI agents? Plus, how would they be differentiated it if they were not using one?

  • @sinistry(62)· 14d

    Maybe I missed it, but this post never mentioned whether the content in question was enjoyable.

    If you're amused and entertained or educated and enlightened from what you consumed why does the source matter?

  • @davideownzall(74)· 14d

    You can already train an llm local model with text written by you and it will make posts like you do, I bet some already do this... I'd say that at a point you will just have to curate the person behind the account, if it's a hive lover, not an extractor, etc, that will matter when you can't define if a text is Ai or not

  • @intishar(76)· 14d

    I think I can feel if a post is AI generated or human written. AI writing never given me the feeling of human touch in writing. So, till now I could understand if a article is AI made or not.

  • @grindle(79)· 14d

    I think that point has arrived sadly, I now only interact and engage with those I have placed on my "favourite list"

  • @davedickeyyall(79)· 14d

    #themorningbowl

  • @tarazkp(86)· 14d

    For me at least, this is why i want people to be personal and show some of their life. I don't want content, I want humans.

  • @muhshrooms(57)· 14d

    Here's a wild idea...

    Keep stake-based voting for governance only. Make votes on posts and comments nothing more than votes, with no rewards attached to them.

    Basically, if you want to reward someone, let it happen through donations using the tipping mechanics, or because you're selling a service or something. If you want to tip someone, it comes out of your own pocket.

    I bet that alone would deter a lot of people from pumping out AI-generated content for rewards. Not completely, obviously, but I think it could bring it down considerably.

    And there's always the DHF for funding things that actually benefit the ecosystem.

    Then increase the APR to compensate for the APR that was previously going toward curation. You'd still have rewards going to users, but you'd remove the incentive to manufacture content specifically to attract stake-weighted votes.

    It wouldn't solve every problem, but it would completely change the incentive structure.

    My two cents anyways...

    Edit: And honestly, I think changing the incentive is probably going to be a lot more effective than trying to figure out whether every sentence was written by a human.

    Edit 1.2:

    But I know the puto-crats of Hive won't like that because then they couldn't hover over Trending like hyenas, waiting for the next corporate-speak brown-noser to pop up so they can throw their giant votes at it and feel like they're personally curating civilization.

    And obviously we can't have that. What would happen to all those carefully cultivated little mutual-admiration ecosystems where everyone votes everyone else, tells each other how brilliant and insightful they are, and then wonders why the same 47 accounts are permanently sitting at the top?

    God forbid we take the money out of the vote and make people actually decide whether they want to support someone enough to reach into their own pocket. 😂

    Nope. Much better to let the whales play Kingmaker with the inflation pool and then call it "curation."

  • @riverflows(82)· 14d

    If it comes down to this place mainly being AI I'm out. Not that I matter as an individual but I wonder how many of us will leave collectively. All community owners SHOULD specify no AI and do best to discourage.

    "when it's undetectable" will be a different story. That's certainly not yet. Even some of my most liked people have used it and I don't know how to deal with that, especially the ones with fat wallets and influence. I can't go up against them, and I don't have a willingness to fight either.

    it'd probably be quite a weird one trying really hard to create super long and confusing sentences trying to mimic me

    Hahaha was thinking the same... Lmao.

    I respect you because of your uniqueness - please don't get an acid agent...

  • @buttcoins(75)· 14d

    To me developing Proof of Human metrics will be key. Kyc free human verification hoops. POH for the win. 😎 the using of AI will be difficult to detect. Im not so concerned about AI assisted posts. But im opposed to simple prompt ‘write me 500 words on such and such a topic.’ I may oppose it, but not sure how i would know 🤷‍♂️

  • @skiptvads(74)· 14d

    after reading this post my first thought was like this is going to get a ton of comments, I think thats it mostly comes down to we may eventually have to stop trying to determine trust by examining every sentence somebody writes, not saying Im in favor of Ai content or against it as a tool, there is a bigger question "what does trusting an account means?", over time we know the users who are active, we have a perception of their opinions when you read snaps or blog posts, in your mind you start creating this profile of the user, accounts that actually interact with people, remain active over time, come and go because they have a life and other things to do, have and grow their stake intentionally, participate outside of their own posts, and even communicate with other Hive users outside the platform become easier to trust, not saying they cant become a bad actor at some point, but trusing someone specially over the internet is highly risky but can be achieve with the thing we seem least able to alter, reverse, or recover...."time". You may never meet that person in real life, but at a virtual level there is still a history there, including all the little imperfections and inconsistencies that come with actually participating in a community. That doesn't mean those things prove someone isn't using AI or that Ai couldn't imitate some of that behavior, basically when AI eventually reaches the point where the writing itself can't reliably tell us anything, I think reputation and trust are going to have to come from the person's behavior and history rather than chasing every sentence in an article trying to figure out how it was produced, I think there are way worse things to look at in a user's behavior. As you mention food for thought....how can we quantify time and effort on Hive based on actions and not on sentences? 🤔

  • @blingit(69)· 14d

    i agree with so much here. its hard to know quite where to take it. Trusting that the person you followed is real i feel is going to be a big thing in the future. perhaps like hive with "trust" scores embedded into accounts. not just likes and follower counts.

    I am getting SO SO SO SO SO (can i be more clear) sick of watching a video getting interested and then being like.... OMG is this AI and that is NOT what i want. The amount of deepfakes. its scary. I consider myself fairly tech literate. However i am struggling with it. I wish people would just declare. like i think we will reach the point that people wont care, and they can look up videos and be like... yeah i will watch this its good (and know instantly its AI) and sometimes you just want Authentic people.

    There are so many trends in youtube at the moment, where it used to be the "slickest most fancy" videos that were super popular, and now, quite often as long as audio is ok, people are trusting the less slick more human videos as they are more real.

    I do worry about AI bots on here though... like its bad enough when you realize that you have been upvoting a "taker". There is an account that MUST be AI in some way... it posts a flower, or other dumb photo.. and then a very generic post that is made to sound legit. And this person does LOTS and LOTS of commenting... and i was always pleased as the account ALWAYS commented. and then after about a year, i looked at the wallet, and every sent bar about 200 hive was being extracted and the KE score was like 17.

    So....... i stopped voting is comments (but replied to them so still engaging) as as soon as i stopped money voting his posts... POOF he went onto greener pastures.

    Anyway sorry for the pre coffee morning ramble.

  • @apshamilton(73)· 14d

    Yes, I've been disappointed that some interesting newcomers I was checking out turned out to be AI. It does make you less trusting.

    This blockchain was created to distribute tokens widely and create a community via the concept of "Proof of Brain". But AI has sort of broken this idea and perhaps the token is already widely distributed enough.

    Its perhaps good that the price is so low that there is little incentive to try to milk the rewards pool with AI slop.

  • @behiver(77)· 14d

    Curating based on trust is one thing to go as once you achieved that level, that means it was with effort. Another thing that I am looking for when going through the feed is to see personal experiences. I simply don't like hype anymore, but genuine experiences - good or bad.

  • @nattosenpai(75)· 14d

    I would like to be able to guarantee or prove 100% that everything I do, write, edit and share here on Hive is entirely my own work. Sure, I've used AI for very specific things like "expanding" and improving the quality of a banner or making a version of Ryan Gosling in Blade Runner 2099 with my face for my profile, for example. But when it comes to content as such, and more content that I know can remunerate me in some way, I prefer to do it with my own hands and usual resources.

    You have no idea how many hours I sometimes dedicate to writing one of my many anime or movie reviews. The great thing about all this is that I LOVE doing it. I like to write, talk about what I see, and the whole process of making a post, formatting it, and uploading it has become part of my daily life. Replacing that with an AI Agent that will "make my job easier" is something I would never do, to be honest.

    And well, I think it's very difficult for an AI to replace me or perfectly imitate me since I consider myself quite unpredictable. 😅 A person's/user's authenticity lies in everything that has identified them on the internet and more. I believe that one way to verify a user's authenticity is to see or interact with them beyond the digital realm. Obviously, this doesn't mean we're going to send someone to visit every Hive user's house, no. 🥴

    I think that's wrong in many ways and countries, but using Web2 is very helpful in this case. A Discord call, an Instagram status, a Facebook meme, a controversial tweet on X... In short, there are many ways to verify a user's authenticity, even when they try to "hide" their identity.

    Anyway, that's my opinion, really. Until they're 100% verified, who knows if the rest of the world's users are real or created by AI? Well, I'd better go before I start talking about ""the internet is dead." 😅

  • @suisver(72)· 14d

    I don't have a definitive answer, but I believe that in the future, the most valued content will be:

    1. Posts with personal content, experiences, and stories

    2. Or simply posts created with AI, depending on who is evaluating them or what the curator is looking for

  • @wiseagent(82)· 14d

    We have a very tricky situation here. There is no escaping from the reality imposed by AI, so it's necessary to join forces with this new scenario. The wild question is: How to do this properly? We still don't know, and perhaps we never will.

    At the end of the day, I think it’s about investing in, building, and maintaining a strong networking that will likely continue to help us. We have to believe that humans will still primarily help humans (even though thinking this way might seem "utopian").

  • @livinguktaiwan(81)· 14d

    A trustworthy healthy account is always going to be the first thing I look at when I curate, followed by content. People will have to earn my support nowadays, I'm fed up of too much crap

  • @ikigaidesign(76)· 14d

    The truth is, everything is driven by AI these days. You watch videos on social media of real people—or people who seem real—but it turns out that’s not the case; it’s all created with AI. Obviously, many people take advantage of it to create their own content, and originality is lost. How far are we going to go with this? Well, time will tell. Let’s hope it doesn’t get that far here, because we know very well that on Hive we’re known for creating our own content and interacting ourselves—sharing our experiences, ideas, and thoughts. I share your philosophy: we need to encourage newcomers to be original and not fall into the trap of AI—at least not when it comes to commenting.

  • @virtualgrowth(72)· 14d

    AI is something for us to all think about as it becomes more present in our lives. Great perspectives as always. Thank you for sharing.

  • @valentin86(69)· 14d

    Interesting topic. I see the problem differently: it's not AI that changes curation, but the fact that Hive has always operated on criteria that now appear to have never been clear. Hmmmm!...I think the effort was never verifiable, only assumed. And let's be serious, a long text could be written in 10 minutes or 3 hours, and a short text could have more work behind it than it might seem at first glance.

    AI just brings to the surface something that already existed - we have no way of knowing who is working, who is copying, who is optimizing, who is improvising. And I don't think we ever will. What I think will matter in the future is not "who wrote the text", but who the author is. How they behave, how constant they are, what kind of presence they have over time, how they interact with people, what kind of vibe they leave in the community.

  • @hivebuzz(74)· 14d

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  • @artofkylin(66)· 14d

    I have such a jumble of feelings about AI. On one hand I really like claude code it's opened doors for people like me to build ideas that have lived in my head for ages but there was no way I'd build it cause solo deving isn't something I'm gonna do.

    That said, while I am find using programs created with claude code or similar I have no interest in reading a book or blog written by AI or any interest in images created by AI. This is partly cause currently AI art just looks meh at best currently but what draws me to art is the humanity of it.

    What draws me to code is that it works.

  • @molometer(72)· 14d

    If we consider how AI has impacted contributers on platforms like YouTube it's a disaster for the vast majority and YouTube Google is happy to not be paying youtubers.

    It's shortsighted on YouTubes part and may lead to it's collapse.

    We need to be prepared to do something about AI on hive. At least where little human effort is being used.

  • When AI becomes so good that you can't detect it any longer, what will we be upvoting then?

    I think this has already happened on facebook at least. Sometimes I see a post that looks really good. And then I see AI sign next to that post. This is a bit depressing.

    Also a bit off topic. Yesterday I wrote this comment Do you think that trying to invite some anime/ tv series reactors to Hive could work out? Or would that cause more problems than it is worth?

  • @darth-azrael(74)· 14d

    I think we are not far from a day when most writing, even things like novels, will be at least AI assisted. Authors will be writing novels via prompts (and of course it's already happening to some degree) much as coders are coding via prompts. Want to write in the style of Charles Dickens? No problem... We aren't quite there yet but it certainly seems like we will be soon.